EF-111 under wing pylons

[bar side]

Hi

just opening an EF-111 kits (zhengdefu 1/48) and wondering about the use of wing pylons.  From photos it looks like either one or two pylons nearest the body were used, but I haven’t seen many with tanks on these pylons.  Some are carrying a pod, so any help as to what that is would be useful too.

Also, the pylons with the kit look all wrong, but may be able to modify the shape or use ones from another kit left overs

[Creepy Pete]

The pods you see on some pics are baggage pods. The only other things I've seen on EF-111 wing pylons are ACMI pods, mounted on the side of the pylon on a Sidewinder rail, and I have a pic of one loaded with a training AIM-9 on an airshow, which I suspect was done just for the show.

[bar side]

Cheers @Creepy Pete makes sense with the pods.  I wonder if they carried external tanks for the raid on Libya?  I guess the bomb bay probably had extra internal fuel, or if they carried internal ordinance

[bentwaters81tfw]

Ignore   missed the EF bit.

 

[Creepy Pete]

35 minutes ago, bar side said:

 I wonder if they carried external tanks for the raid on Libya?  I guess the bomb bay probably had extra internal fuel, or if they carried internal ordinance

I don't think I've ever seen an EF-111 with external fuel tanks. Also, since it was converted to an EF-111, it no longer had a functional internal weapons bay, and they never carried any ordnance.

[bar side]

The only picture I have seen with external tanks was a model, so I think I will go with no tanks.  I will fit the inner pylons though.  Cheers for the advice

[Silverkite]

EF-111A B/N 66 0041 in the prototype phase with black stripes along the fuselage with red inflight refuel spot markings flew with two drop tanks installed on the outer wing pylons

 

Regarding Sidewinders there it was a discussion on ARC forums and possibly something on F-111.net in any case if you decide to pick the whif route while keeping it loadoutically correct the Aim-9M fins do not have clearance for shoulder mounting, so you have to put them and their dedicate launcher where the usual ground ordnance and its pylon goes otherwise you can slap a Papa at the shoulder station

 

Luigi

[Jabba]

1 hour ago, Silverkite said:

you can slap a Papa at the shoulder station

 

Luigi

 

They carried these during the Gulf War of 1991.

[Murph]

13 minutes ago, Jabba said:

 

They carried these during the Gulf War of 1991.

EF-111As in Desert Storm were not armed.  That comes from a conversation I had with a pilot that flew the Spark Vark during that conflict.

 

Regards,

Murph

[PhantomBigStu]

12 minutes ago, Murph said:

EF-111As in Desert Storm were not armed.  That comes from a conversation I had with a pilot that flew the Spark Vark during that conflict.

 

Regards,

Murph

Indeed and yet an ef111 scored a mirage F1........

[bar side]

See what you mean about the winders

 

 

This is 66-0042 - confusingly actually 67-0034 but the one I have decals for

[Jabba]

11 hours ago, Murph said:

EF-111As in Desert Storm were not armed.  That comes from a conversation I had with a pilot that flew the Spark Vark during that conflict.

 

Regards,

Murph

Thanks for that, I thought that they were armed like the F-111Fs and most aircraft with sidewinders at least on the first few nights.

 

11 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Indeed and yet an ef111 scored a mirage F1........

Technically the Mirage F1 was trying to follow the EF-111A at low level and flew into the ground.

[tmeyer]

I have seen a picture of an F-111F carrying an AIM-9L/M, but it used a Sidewinder pylon mated to the bottom of a pylon (outboard pylon, I think). Certainly never carried operationally that I know of.  Will have to check references.  The F-111F would have carried ordnance on the inboard pylon only.  Guessing it was a trial fit.

 

Tom

[Silverkite]

On 11/8/2019 at 6:34 PM, tmeyer said:

I have seen a picture of an F-111F carrying an AIM-9L/M, but it used a Sidewinder pylon mated to the bottom of a pylon (outboard pylon, I think). Certainly never carried operationally that I know of.  Will have to check references.  The F-111F would have carried ordnance on the inboard pylon only.  Guessing it was a trial fit.

 

Tom

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/292043-f-111e-armament-options/

 

The problem on 3A/6A for AIM-9L/M missiles was a fit issue. IIRC there was only about 1/8" clearance between the bottom of the aircraft wing and the top of the wing of the 2nd generation Sidewinders (D/G/H/L/M/R/S) that had a greater wingspan than the 1st generation missiles (A-B-E-J-N-P). Whatever the number was, it wasn't enough, so the only way the F-111 could carry a 2nd generation AIM-9 was by parent-mounting the launcher to the bottom of the (usually) inboard stations 4/5 (this wasn't done during Desert Storm). The RAAF experimented with an extended/angled pylon to overcome this limitation, but I think it caused a vibration problem and wasn't adopted. Not positive about that and would be happily corrected by someone from Oz who knows more.

 

Luigi

[Pappy]

On 11/3/2019 at 11:22 PM, bar side said:

Hi

just opening an EF-111 kits (zhengdefu 1/48) and wondering about the use of wing pylons.  From photos it looks like either one or two pylons nearest the body were used, but I haven’t seen many with tanks on these pylons.  Some are carrying a pod, so any help as to what that is would be useful too.

Also, the pylons with the kit look all wrong, but may be able to modify the shape or use ones from another kit left overs

 

Likely the MXU-648 luggage pod. These were based on the NAPALM store but differed in having aerodynamic fairings fitted to the nose and tail and the addition of a small access door on the L/H side. I think that these are available as resin aftermarket items, google is your friend. They were attached directly beneath the wing pylon

Edited November 14, 2019 by Pappy

[ElectroSoldier]

This is not meant to reflect any actual use case.

 

The EF-111A was capable of carrying 600gal tanks on the outer wing pylons (by outer I am only considering the 2 inner most pylons that can move with the wings, Im fully aware of the other 2 is is capable of having but I dont consider them at all). In that there was provision for the plane to take fuel from them in flight. It was also capable of carrying those tanks on the inner pylons but it never did as it couldnt get the fuel out of the tanks in flight.

 

There were delivery profiles for the AIM-9L/M and P in the protected memory, AIM-9L/M fins were to long to be mounted to the shoulder pylons but the body without fins could be mounted to provide a lock on.

AIM-9P could be mounted but never was and was never planned as that wasnt the mission of the EF-111, it would always have help around.

No other weapons were tested on it, for instance it was never tested with AGM-88 missiles, there was no profile in the weapons computer to deliver them. It "only" had the profiles you would associate with the F-111A (Mk-82 fin groups, 84, M-117 etc etc etc) but once it was converted to an EF-111 there was no intention of wasting it on those missions and those weapons were never even considered for fitting

 

A baggage pod was a must on a long flight as the weapons bay was full, and it could carry the ACMI pod or what ever its called on any pylon though usually on a shoulder pylon as the parent pylon needed an adapter to mount it.

 

The EF-111A was the only One Eleven that always went clean

[bar side]

Cheers guys this has been thoroughly interesting.  Going to build it clean and maybe scratch a baggage pod & pylon for static display.  Maybe even hang an AIM-9P off the side.

[exdraken]

3 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

.

 

The EF-111A was capable of carrying 600gal tanks on the outer wing pylons (by outer I am only considering the 2 inner most pylons that can move with the wings, Im fully aware of the other 2 is is capable of having but I dont consider them at all). In that there was provision for the plane to take fuel from them in flight. It was also capable of carrying those tanks on the inner pylons but it never did as it couldnt get the fuel out of the tanks in flight.

 

 

AIM-9P could be mounted but never was and was never planned as that wasnt the mission of the EF-111, it would always have help around.

No other weapons were tested on it, for instance it was never tested with AGM-88 missiles, there was no profile in the weapons computer to deliver them. It "only" had the profiles you would associate with the F-111A (Mk-82 fin groups, 84, M-117 etc etc etc) but once it was converted to an EF-111 there was no intention of wasting it on those missions and those weapons were never even considered for fitting

 

 

 

The EF-111A was the only One Eleven that always went clean

Interesting regarding the inner pylons! Was the straight A model also not capable of taking fuel from them?

 

Regarding the bombs:

Was the weapons Computer still in and functional on the EF?

So could it have been used to drop bombs in a WWIII style scenario?

Thanks!

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, bar side said:

Going to build it clean and maybe scratch a baggage pod & pylon for static display.

IIRC, some of the Hasegawa Phantom kits had travel/baggage pods. Maybe one of our Phantom phans can tell you which boxings had them or might have a couple of spares they would be willing to unload. I think the pods were made from BLU-10 napalm stores that had a hatch cut in one side and a piano hinge fitted, Some are decorated with squadron badges or the last three digits of the aircraft's serial number. See the two links for photos. Some of the pods used by our resident F-16 ANG squadron have the state flag of Texas on the side.

Mike

 

https://www.alamy.com/tech-sgt-eric-oconner-179th-expeditionary-fighter-squadron-crew-chief-loads-chalks-into-the-travel-pod-of-an-f-16-fighting-falcon-before-launch-july-19-2018-at-an-undisclosed-location-in-southwest-asia-the-179th-efs-is-returning-to-the-148th-fighter-wing-in-duluth-minnesota-after-a-nearly-four-month-deployment-to-the-407th-air-expeditionary-group-in-support-of-operation-inherent-resolve-since-april-the-179th-efs-f-16s-flew-more-than-600-combat-sorties-and-nearly-3500-hours-us-air-force-photo-by-staff-sgt-dana-j-cable-image213779544.html

 

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10327

[bar side]

Cheers @72modeler I will have a dig through the spares box.  I did the Revell FGR2 a wile ago & sure I can turn something up that would look about right.  

[exdraken]

I think the Daco Starfighter set has the napalm canister based baggage pods

[Steve McArthur]

Any of the Hasegawa F-16 kits have a travel pod in it.

[72modeler]

16 hours ago, Steve McArthur said:

Any of the Hasegawa F-16 kits have a travel pod in it.

I knew I had seen them in a Hasegawa kit- I just had the Phantom kits in mind. Thanks for the tip, Steve!

Mike

[ElectroSoldier]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:50 PM, exdraken said:

Interesting regarding the inner pylons! Was the straight A model also not capable of taking fuel from them?

 

Regarding the bombs:

Was the weapons Computer still in and functional on the EF?

So could it have been used to drop bombs in a WWIII style scenario?

Thanks!

It didnt have to original "computers" as fitted to the F-111A, they were changed when it became an EF-111A it did retain the delivery profiles for radar bombing. It was a very accurate bombing system for its time, the F-111A was used several times during the Vietnam war as a bombing run leader, lesser jets like the F-4 took bombing ques from the F-111As.

 

The ability to take fuel from the inner pylon was added to the F-111E/D/F.
It wasnt common for it to be done, have tanks fitted, as it required an adapter to be fitted and I dont believe there was enough to go around all of them all at the same time (F-111E and F).
It was usual to see the EF-111A with only the outer pylons fitted and no shoulder pylon fitted to that.

 

There was no real use for the inner pylon once it became an EF-111A, the coke bottle adapters they did have at Upper Heyford would have been used on the Es to extend their bombing run range, dropping them in the last 100 mile low level super sonic dash to the target.

 

Theres a nice baggage pod in the Hasegawa A-10A kit I believe... I think!
They were used when hoping to airshows and deployments, otherwise removed as soon as practical and stored. They were directly mounted to the pylon, they did not use that funny rail provided in the Hasegawa kit.

It can look rather smart with a nice photo etched detail part to depict the inner workings of the pylon.
They dont always have to have something hanging from them 🙂

 

And no, it would be hard to imagine any flight that would require 600gal tanks on an F-111 of any kind, its range was vast even on internal fuel only.

Edited November 14, 2019 by ElectroSoldier

[CT7567]

6 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I knew I had seen them in a Hasegawa kit- I just had the Phantom kits in mind. Thanks for the tip, Steve!

Mike

Assuming your screen name is reflective of your scale preference, you're probably thinking of the 1/72 "old tool" Hasegawa F-4E series kits (E, EJ, and F) which include the baggage pods.