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1/72 Vickers Viscount 700 - cosmetic surgery for the Mach 2 kit


ianwau

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I've had in the collection for some years the Mach 2 Vickers Viscount 700 kit - a manufacturer who produces some rather interesting subjects (ie Mach 2).  This is one of their better efforts in my view with nice detail, generally accurate lines (but see below) and the opportunity for some great colour schemes.  The usual research has been done before starting - including build reviews etc from other modellers.  A number of reviewers/builders have commented that there is something that is 'not quite right' with the finished model and I have formed a view as to what that might be.

 

For a hint - check out the wing root shape on the fuselage halves. Notice anything weird? Particularly if you know what makes aeroplanes fly (apart from engines)...

DSC02218

 

 

So let's turn to Exhibit A - the wings.... Bizarre as it might sounds - I believe the wings have been moulded 'up side down'. The wheel wheels and lower wing surface details have been moulded engraved on the TOP WING - and the engine nacelles/top wing details are moulded/engraved on the bottom. Even the top view of the top wing below sort of looks vaguely deflated?  OR is it me?   Check out the detail pics below, showing the kit, the Viscount 'official-ish' wing profile (NACA 63-???[modified]), and early stages of my replacement : 

model 191103

  

So you've probably guessed correctly.  Some cosmetic surgery means scratchbuilding some new wings for the Viscount - including a cut and shut of the Mach 2 wheel wells and engine nacelles/fairings. ie what is on the Mach 2 top wing will end up on the bottom wing and vice versa.  Simples eh? Oh - and a bit of scribing.  Thought it'd be worth showing the progress and end result and see if it looks round about right when I'm finished?? 

 

Here's where I am up to.   Basic replacement wing shape has been formed up - currently overlength and rough markings showing where the Mach 2 wheel wells and fairings are going to go.... 

DSC02226

 

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Good luck with this one!

Mach 2 have just announced a VC-10 model will soon be available. There is a well known forum member (who's been banned from numerous forums because he can be a bit argumentative/ outspoken) who made a less than complimentary post when it was first announced - he was then roundly criticised for his remarks. Sadly, he does have a point, Mach 2 kits are often well below the standard of limited run kits from many years ago. I have their Caravelle and would really like to build it but...

 

I like your approach though, see it as an opportunity for a bit of good old scratch building. I'll definitely follow this build.

 

Jeff

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13 hours ago, pinky coffeeboat said:

post when it was first announced

There was a hell of a ding dong on Airliner café on the Mach 2 VC10 . Surprised it was allowed to continue .

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16 hours ago, ianwau said:

scratchbuilding some new wings

Great work . brilliant ,well done .

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Hi, ianwau.

I discovered your thread some days ago, but I find time to replay only now.

First of all: congratulation for your approach to this difficult build.

I have in the stash the same kit since 2014 that a friend of mine brought me directly form France.

I wrote some notes about the surgery needed in order to get a decent model and the last sentence was:

"I don't see any alternative to build a new wing and adapt the engines nacelles on".

And to make new wings I thought to a wooden core with thin plasticard glued on.

Unfortunately the airfoil (and the consequent wing/body fairing) is not the only problem.

If you need, I can post some references about the other issues and the correction needed as the level of the pax windows that should be at least 2 mm lower. etc....

Good luck for you build.

Regards

Eugenio

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I salute you, my friend.  First rate modeling and dedication in the face of needless inaccuracy.  I wish you the best of luck, but seeing all your work confirms why I will never buy a Mach 2 kit again.  The PBM was enough work.  

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1 hour ago, 72linerlover said:

...If you need, I can post some references about the other issues and the correction needed as the level of the pax windows that should be at least 2 mm lower. etc....

Good luck for you build....   Eugenio

Hi Eugenio, - yes please that'd be useful to have another perspective. The nacelle transplant is now complete - with the wings currently in a stable condition in the recovery room. The plastic surgery required a marathon 6 hour operation under anaesthetic.  

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9 hours ago, ianwau said:

Hi Eugenio, - yes please that'd be useful to have another perspective.

Ok, ianwau.

I need some time to organize information in a decent way.

 

9 hours ago, Ad-4N said:

I will never buy a Mach 2 kit again

Sadly me too, because the items are interesting, but awfully done, at least at the cost they require.

 

Regards

Eugenio

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Posted (edited)

A long time between updates on the Mach 2 Vickers Viscount.

 

You probably correctly surmised that the model was elevated to Shelf Queen status - with some easier subject matter beckoning. However I'm not keen on leaving projects unfinished. The catalyst was discovery of a solution for the clear cabin windows - the story below.

 

Just one of the problem areas on the Viscount was resolving how to deal with the large cabin windows. The Mach 2 clear parts aren't exactly clear, or a great fit. The window openings are too large for Krystal Klear (or equivalent), and replacing fuselage sides with a panel of clear vacformed styrene was unappealing. I've seen some modellers successfully use two pack clear casting resin - however never managed to source this product in any size smaller than 500ml which is uneconomic for me given price and limited shelf life.   So was delighted to find at my local fabric/haberdashery/craft shop a 25ml bottle of clear UV resin (they were selling it for crafty people to make multi-colour jewellery with embedded glitter, butterflies etc). 

 

Modellers with 3D printing experience will chime in - but I'm pretty sure this is the same stuff used for 3D printing (on the resin printers). Basically it's a 1-pack product about the consistency of PVA glue - which sets rock hard when exposed to UV light. You CAN buy a UV torch to speed up the process - but there's also some perfectly good UV available from the sun, and you'll even get UV exposure on a cloudy day (at least in Australia). 

 

Anyway - here's what I bought, shown next to a bottle of Tamiya glue for size comparison. Note I'm not promoting this brand specifically  - you can buy different brands from fleabay, art stores, office supply stores. And I guess they all have similar properties. but no experience with other than this. 

434062510_10231673984583131_3319758141804910545_n 

So let's show you my first experiment - for which the Viscount was an ideal subject.

  • A bit of research (from those using casting resin) identified the need to make a 'dam' to ensure the opening was overfilled, vs underfilled.
  • The dam is then sealed with adhesive tape so that it hold the resin until it cures
  • I elected to fill from the inside on the basis I would be later sanding the external surface flush with the fuselage.
  • The top photo below shows on the left, a dam made out of 0.75mm styrene strip surrounding the opening and..
  • ..on the right - the result after the pour, and with the removal of the adhesive tape. Note the flecky look is due to residue from the adhesive tape.
  • The bottom photo shows what it looks like after removing the dam and sanding back the excess resin flush with the fuselage (initially with 240 grade wet and dry then progressively through to 3000 grade). It's the window in the middle - the one on the left and right are unfilled.. Happy!
  • Note this is NOT the finished product as more clean up and polishing is required - I wanted to prove to myself that it would work   

viscount2

 

So with the experiment successful - I then moved on to doing all the Viscount windows.

  • Photo below shows the dams in place for all the windows
  • And same thing with adhesive tape over the top ready for filling (I've used Tamiya tape here but will use something stickier next time - I got a bit of leakage)

viscount1

 

A couple of notes on the process:-

  • the resin is remarkably tidy to work with - easily contained to the window opening.
  • The resin thickness is about 2mm including the dam. I suspect too thick and setting becomes an issue?
  • Setting took about 30 minutes on the window sill in dappled sunlight - including removal of the tape at the 20 min mark and flipping over for some UV on the other side.   (I didn't bother getting a UV torch)
  • If the resin is still sticky - then it isn't set. Leave it longer. 
  • I left it a couple of hours before trying to sand 

I'll give another update shortly on progress on the model.  I've today glued the fuselage halves together  - that preceded by quite a bit of surgery since the previous update...

Edited by ianwau
typos
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  • ianwau changed the title to 1/72 Vickers Viscount 700 - cosmetic surgery for the Mach 2 kit

Wow!  A positive attitude goes a long way in this hobby, along with faith, hope, and charity.  You are taking bold steps by working on this kit and turning it into something that resembles the Viscount.  I have the Britannia kit with all the resin extras, and I can tell you it is a hard slog, but I think you'll get there with the right outlook.

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That is a great result! This is something I'll have to look into, I often find myself making windows in the sides of fuselages and faffing around with bits of clear styrene, or replacing poor transparencies like this. 

That looks like a bottle of Magic ⚠️😎

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

I often find myself making windows in the sides of fuselages and faffing around with bits of clear styrene, or replacing poor transparencies like this. 

That looks like a bottle of Magic

Yes it was a real breakthrough for me.  I initially used it on the Heller 749 Constellation (which is kitted with blurred, oversized windows) and very happy with the way it polished up. Krystal Klear (& similar) neve been good for following the curvature of the fuselage vs concave dips. 

Edited by ianwau
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Very interesting Ian, especially bringing the UV resin product to our attention - having followed your other builds I'm sure you will turn this kit into a great model too.

 

Chris

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Some more work to report.

 

First up, a shot of the stitched together fuselage.

- it actually went together better than I was expecting

- there's no alignment pins - so I followed standard vacform procedure and 'tabbed' one of the fuselage halves - basically 6mm wide strips of 1mm styrene glued on the inner surface of the long straight stretches. This keeps things straight, provides joint reinforcement and obviously a clear alignment reference. 

- there's a bit of wing root canal surgery visible, I'll update on that further down. 

- also visible are the UV resined cabin windows.  The front one has a bit of black paint making it look dodgy (I painted the window edges black before applying the UV resin to improve the visual 'depth')

 

DSC06102

 

So below is a bit of detail on the wing root canal surgery.

  • as noted in an earlier update, the Mach 2 moulded wings show all the hallmarks of having been moulded upside down (check out the earlier photos as to why I've arrived at this conclusion)
  • in the 'before' pic below, you can see the original Mach 2 wing root - overlaid with the Viscount wing profile (green pen) at roughly the correct position with ~2.5 degrees incidence
    • The Mach 2 wing fitment has too much incidence - the leading edge is too close to the cabin windows (I believe an attempt to get the very flat upper surface to look vaguely aerodynamic?)
    • Also shown as red dotted line is the offending area I need to remove. Includes the wing root - and also the surrounding fairing which is a) too high/close to the windows and b) misshapen to adapt to the Mach 2 wing shape. 
  • The picture at the bottom looks like a bit rough but there's a fair bit going on
    • The removed fairing has been backfilled with 1mm styrene sheet 
    • A new wing root has been installed. This is in fact an offcut of each of my scratchbuilt wings - with a wing spar set to have the wing roots protrude appropriately outside the fuselage skin.
    • The remnant trailing edge fairing was left there on the assumption I could 'make it work' - however I've since removed and replaced that as well. 
    • clearly some clean up required....
DSC06101mod

 

Some progress on the clean up shown below

  • The styrene sheet that backfilled the fairing cutout has been faired in with Milliput
  • The trailing edge to fuse fairing has been replaced with some moulded styrene (tricky shape!)
  • the temporary wing spars have been shortened to allow for dihedral (I'll glue some longer spars on top of these which will give me some structural fuse to wing strength)
  • Also shown dry fitted is the scratchbuilt wing in postion.
DSC06105mod

 

Below is progress on the underside

  • Initial fairing in has been done with Milliput. A bit more sanding and finessing is required here.
  • You can see the fuselage join is pretty clean. Also a bit of Milliput used here but not too bad at all
DSC06107

 

And below is a general shot of overall progress

  • Scratchbuilt wings are dry fitted. You can see where I've grafted in the Mach 2 nacelles
  • Dihedral handily set with Millput boxes (turned out to be about the right height
  • Wings a little overlength inboard (need to cut at an angle at wing root to adjust for dihedral)
DSC06108

 

Next steps:

  • Need to do the fairing in at the top of the wing roots. Will use Milliput and a bit of sanding.
  • The canopy is thick, opaque and blobby. Need to sand off inaccurate framing, 'facet' the window panels, and get this faired in.
  • The 'hump' in the fuse top behind the cockpit needs to be sanded down to follow the fuselage line (currently looks too humpy a la Jumbo jet, and another feature that makes the Mach 2 kit look a bit 'odd')
  • Need to resolve if the fin chord is undersized at the top. Other builders have highlighted this.  Easy enough to fix. 
  • Set up the Lego jig for getting the wings glued to the fuselage (suspecting the wings are going to be glued on sooner vs later)
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As an builder of flying models and a desperate accurate airfoil tragic, I'm delighted to see what you're doing here!

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This is excellent work.  I would strongly encourage you to reexamine the cockpit clear part and determine whether you should use it to create a buck for your famous "Bulgarian Cheese" vac-form device.  Re-check the windscreen rake, which is almost vertical on the Mach 2 offering, and compare it against photos, and also determine whether there's enough "glass" on the sides to give you a later model -700.  In addition to lowering the hump, I'd encourage you to trim it back to create more room for a larger, modified cockpit clear part.

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52 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

As an builder of flying models and a desperate accurate airfoil tragic, I'm delighted to see what you're doing here!

Thanks! It was quite a journey getting to the view that the kit wing is moulded upside down - plenty of photos of 1:1 Viscounts with wings removed and 1:1 wing cross-sections.  Glad I've taken this path.

 

14 minutes ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

I would strongly encourage you to reexamine the cockpit clear part and determine whether you should use it to create a buck for your famous "Bulgarian Cheese" vac-form device.  Re-check the windscreen rake, which is almost vertical on the Mach 2 offering, and compare it against photos, and also determine whether there's enough "glass" on the sides to give you a later model -700.

Yes I've been pondering exactly that. The Mach 2 comes with 2 x canopies (one early, one late) so with nothing to lose I've already deframed and faceted one of them, fixing the rake in the process. The other builds of this kit I've seen seem invariably seem to have an overly large 'forehead' above the windscreen.   Not sure if that's the cockpit windows masked too shallow, the rake issue, or if material neeeds to be removed from top of cockpit, or if the jumbo jet hump is accentuating the forehead.  Definitely an area of the kit that doesn't look right   Luckily I have about 40-50 pics of the cabin area so determined to get it right.    I'll load some pics up tomorrow - be interested to get your views on whether  it's progress or we need to go the Bulgarian Cheese route! 

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