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Bristol Bulldog markings


rossm

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Having stumbled on this https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1935/1935 - 1358.html with the imminent re-appearance of the Airfix Bulldog comes the chance of another type for my Devon/Cornwall collection.

 

The exercise appears to have based the whole squadron at Roborough (Plymouth) from 6th to 21st May 1935 so I need a squadron aircraft from that period.

 

I've got the Profile and the Grainger Data Plan which give drawings for two possibilities - K-1653 and K-1641, both on strength at the time.

 

Whell hubs and propeller bosses are in Flight colours, blue and red respectively.

 

The Data Plan indicates there was a change in colour scheme at some point with the yellow bar squadron marking changing to red with some diagonal stripes. It seems clear this was in 1936 so for my aircraft the yellow bar is correct.

 

The other changes in the Data Plan show black struts changing to natural metal, the antiglare panel (dark green or NIVO?) disappearing and the rudder stripes disappearing. I vaguely recall the latter happened in 1936 but what about the first two?

 

The Profile shows the antiglare panel with the later squadron markings but not the earlier ones ??? Also the fuselage yellow bar is shown aft of the roundel only where Grainger puts it fore and aft in his drawing of the early scheme and aft only for the later scheme.

 

The photos in Flight are not clear enough to give any clues.

 

Does anyone have more information on what the exact apperance would have been in May 1935?

 

EDIT - just found a drawing of K-1641 dated as 1934 in On Target Special - Wings of Silver. Yellow bar aft of roundel only, no antiglage panel, black struts, bulldog badge on fin. Reference is given as Richard Ward in Aircraft Modelworld December 1984. Anyone have that issue to check if there is a photo or just another drawing?

 

EDIT 2 - A photo in Fighter Squadrons of the RAF, undated but at Hendon, shows it in the same scheme as Wings of Silver but without the rudder stripes - was it 1934 they went not 1936? - and with silver struts and no bulldog on the fin. If I can confirm the date fits this looks like the best reference so far.

 

EDIT 3 - The ORB confirms 54 took part in the Hendon display in 1934 so I'm going with that photo, sometimes you have to start a query to remind yourself where to look to solve it :)

 

EDIT 4 - its photo 11 on this page https://www.raf-in-combat.com/downloads/november-2016-bristol-bulldog-32-photos/ but I'd like to find a decent copy of photo 20 as well

 

EDIT 5 - there's even a set of decals for it on Modell Alliance 72-157 Wings of Silver pt2 but Hannants are out of stock - time for a wanted post methinks.

 

Thanks for your forbearance if you read all through this and any additional thoughts are always welcome.

 

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I remembered having a copy  of Aircraft Modelworld with a Bulldog on the cover. The bad news is, it turned out to be a 1987 issue but the good news is the December 1984 issue was in the same box file. Yes, there's a photo of 54 Sqn Bulldogs at Hornchurch: the caption continues "At this time the squadron marking was a yellow bar aft of the roundel subsequently changed to a red bar with silver diagonals, as No 32".  It's not a great picture, it's a line up of 4 aircraft photographed from slightly in front and to the right of the nearest Bulldog (which appears to have a camera gun above its centre section) in such a way that the fuselage markings are obscured by the bottom wing. All bar No 2 in the line have what appear to be red wheel disks. I can't make out any serials but the nearest aircraft could have one starting 'K16**" and it does look to be on a stripe. The photo dates from no later than 1934, as K16** has rudder stripes (the tails of the others aren't visible) - yes, they were discontinued that year. It also has a tailwheel rather than a skid. Wing and centre section struts are black, again with the exception of No 2. As far as I can make out, no glare panels are in evidence.

 

I should tell you that, in the Bulldog Warpaint, there's a profile of K1641 marked in this way, with the yellow stripe behind the roundel but without rudder stripes. There's also one of the same aircraft wearing the "red bar with silver diagonals" and captioned as "revised markings in red on fuselage and above top wing replacing yellow bar as seen in previous profile, and the addition of rudder bars [sic]". This can't be correct: rudder stripes were ordered to be discontinued for technical reasons (the effect that painting markings on control surfaces had on their balance), not on a whim. Once an aircraft had had them removed as ordered, they wouldn't be painted back on.

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1 hour ago, AWFK10 said:

I remembered having a copy  of Aircraft Modelworld with a Bulldog on the cover. The bad news is, it turned out to be a 1987 issue but the good news is the December 1984 issue was in the same box file. Yes, there's a photo of 54 Sqn Bulldogs at Hornchurch: the caption continues "At this time the squadron marking was a yellow bar aft of the roundel subsequently changed to a red bar with silver diagonals, as No 32".  It's not a great picture, it's a line up of 4 aircraft photographed from slightly in front and to the right of the nearest Bulldog (which appears to have a camera gun above its centre section) in such a way that the fuselage markings are obscured by the bottom wing. All bar No 2 in the line have what appear to be red wheel disks. I can't make out any serials but the nearest aircraft could have one starting 'K16**" and it does look to be on a stripe. The photo dates from no later than 1934, as K16** has rudder stripes (the tails of the others aren't visible) - yes, they were discontinued that year. It also has a tailwheel rather than a skid. Wing and centre section struts are black, again with the exception of No 2. As far as I can make out, no glare panels are in evidence.

 

I should tell you that, in the Bulldog Warpaint, there's a profile of K1641 marked in this way, with the yellow stripe behind the roundel but without rudder stripes. There's also one of the same aircraft wearing the "red bar with silver diagonals" and captioned as "revised markings in red on fuselage and above top wing replacing yellow bar as seen in previous profile, and the addition of rudder bars [sic]". This can't be correct: rudder stripes were ordered to be discontinued for technical reasons (the effect that painting markings on control surfaces had on their balance), not on a whim. Once an aircraft had had them removed as ordered, they wouldn't be painted back on.

 

Thank you, camera gun and tailwheel are variations I wasn't aware of, definitely a photo is the best reference. The one in Fighter Squadrons shows a tailwheel.

 

The Profile booklet is similar to the Warpaint but with rudder stripes on both variations. Reading the Grainger booklet and the ORB carefully I doubt the red diagonal stripes unit marking appeared on the Bulldog, it wasn't authorised until 20th September and the Bulldogs were disposed of in an entry prior to 14th Setptember in the ORB. So unless a photo turns up I'm even more sceptical than usual with colour profile drawings.

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22 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Rudder stripes reversed from October 1930, totally removed from August 1934

Thanks for the exact dates which throw into doubt the caption for the photo in Fighter Squadrons of the RAF which states it was taken at Hendon but has no rudder stripes. 54 took part in Hendon in 1934 but that was 30th June. I rather think the photo was really taken at Mildenhall during the Royal Jubilee Review at the beginning of July 1935. Certainly the large number of aircraft visible in the background match with photos of the Royal Review - see https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1935/1935 -2- 0046.html and https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1935/1935 -2- 0047.html

 

Could it be that JDR Rawlings had the wrong information supplied to him for the photo caption?

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Had a look in Alex Crawford's Bristol Bulldog Gloster Gauntlet.  No pics of  K16**.  But there is of 32 Sqn Bulldogs IIAs  Also says 92 bulldogs delivered to RAF K1603 to K1694

 

I would love to see pics of Northolt Bulldogs 41 Sqn if any available

 

Any paint recommendations for "natural metal panels" welcome.

Edited by MigModeller
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