Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Mu17

Problems ordering from Civilized Models ??

Recommended Posts

Anyone else had problems of non-delivery from Civilized Models in the USA ?

ordered a BD5 back in June, eventually they responded to a query and promised to dispatch.  

Their blog says they relocated and had some disruption - and then that they could now respond within 24 hours - three more mails to them and no result.

First problem I have ever had with suppliers but $70 is a hard hit.

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I'm in the same boat. Placed an order for a future release in December 2018. I learned around May that the future release would not materialise (ever), wrote an e-mail to change my order to an existing kit, no reply. Monthy reminders after that, never a reply. Sigh.

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,

            after complaints, I had previously been told my order had been dispatched around August but unhelpfully my computer seems to have eaten the email, so no proof.

Anyhow after multiple attempts to contact via the website (which has no visible email address)  I decided to raise a complaint with Paypal (you might be out of time - check) and there I discovered his direct email. So I asked for a reply in 48 hours or I would be raising a complaint.

 

This DID produce a response - in which he said he had replied to one of my website contacts a few days earlier (nothing received by me) but that he appeared to be having email problems.

He has promised that my BD5 will be cast in the next few days and that I will be getting an email to confirm that, with tracking number. I replied and also asked him to confirm that he received my email - which he has done.    That email was    gmcrorey@gmail.com        also he uses    gary@civilizedmodels.com

 

I am giving Gary the benefit of the doubt for the moment -because I want the model and because I still have time to try to recover my money via Paypal.

Lack of response to multiple contacts both before and after his recent workshop relocation are a fundamental concern - IT issue ? disorganised ? or ????

Can I suggest you try both the email numbers and point out that there is now a thread running which is doing him no favours. A quick resolution to both our problems would help turn his current tarnished image around.

 

Good luck

Paul

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul, thanks for all your information! I will give it another try, and report back here. Regarding recovering the money via PayPal, they write:


   "that a dispute be filed within 180 days of your purchase or payment."


which sounds reasonable to me, but excludes me from filing a complaint.

 

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It took a long time for me to get a BD-5J from him, but he did eventually come through. My first, last, and only order. 

 

He's not doing himself any favors. Keep pressing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't given up hope that the order will be fulfilled. I do resin casting myself, and I know it's laborious and time-consuming. Add the job of creating new masters, and you're spending a lot of time besides your day job. On the other hand, if you can't keep up, stop accepting new orders for a while to catch up. And not replying to customer questions is deadly for your reputation.

 

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob - absolutely - not responding to customers is a killer.

 

Obsessed Member...… was the quality of the BD5J  good ????

 

I love the BD5 and have converted a foam electric fan driven BD5 to fly as a slope soarer. It handles fine but is based on the original 14ft short wing and needs more wing area to fly in the lift on my small local hill. Its about to be modified with the (scale) 28ft wing that was used on the one and only BD5S glider.  I don't suppose anyone knows anything about the BD5S sailplane ?????  There seems to be almost nothing on the internet,  It had twin mainwheels on a single leg on the centreline and a retractable nose skid. Allegedly it was flown only once and I guess thy hadn't accounted for the adverse yaw from ailerons on the long span wing, as the small rudder probably couldn't cope.

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Do you mean this BD-5S? 😀

 

spacer.png

 

I'm slowly converting the LS/ARII/Micro-Ace 1/72 model in one. And indeed with a twin-wheel central landing gear leg:

 

spacer.png

 

BD-5S information is really sparse, probably because it was a bit of a failure. I found a few bits and pieces. If you looked for information, you probably found my old BD-5J page too:

 

https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/bd5.htm

 

Rob

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh that rob !!!   small world !

It that a nice set of S wings converted from another model or a set that you have moulded ?

 

Although the limited info says the S was a failure, it doesn't explain why.   Somewhere I saw something written by a BD5 test pilot who had loads of engine failures and therefore plenty of experience of motorless flight. In his opinion, it would have made a good little glider as it was a handful to land in a field because of the flat glide angle. He had also been a gliding instructor, so his comments need to be taken seriously. Therefore it seems very strange that it should be abandoned after just one flight and to me, that suggests serious handling problems. But its all guesswork.

 

The BD5S has always intrigued me - as I used to fly full sized sailplanes and love small span types.  I also have what I assume is a rare BD5S sales brochure.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm away from home, so no access to my files, but from what I remember the basic shortcoming was the rather low L/D, 15 or so. I'm sure it made more than one flight, since I have scans of a magazine article in which the magazine's pilot flies it and comments on the characteristics. This must have been early on, since there is talk of quite a few modifications to follow.

 

For the model I combined two B-wings, and added a curved-up tip. It was relatively easy, although I'm not 100% sure that my plan view is correct. I basically extended the B-wings leading and trailing edges, creating a small tip chord. With the BD-5's construction method they also could have spaced out the ribs further, but maintained the original tip chord. Judging from photos I thought the former was correct.

 

That Rob 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,

           not aware of that magazine article - any chance of a scan when you are back home ?   

Its always driven m nuts that I couldn't find out more about the S and its problems.  

Are you a glider man too ??    I'm mildly surprised the L/D was as low as 15 but I assumed the sink rate was pretty high.

There doesn't seem to be any agreement on the exact span of the S version.  My subjective impression was that the root and tip cords remained the same and just the span was stretched - possibly by increasing rib spacing ???   Of course you could be right and the taper remained the same with a smaller tip and your model certainly looks right.

Happy to scan the sales brochure if you don't already have it.

Paul

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the kit photos 'Obsessed' - are you happy with the quality ?

I've ordered the 1/32  which will be easier on my old eyes !

The Octupussy scene with the hangar is really fun.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Mu17 said:

Hi Rob,

           not aware of that magazine article - any chance of a scan when you are back home ?   

Its always driven m nuts that I couldn't find out more about the S and its problems.  

Are you a glider man too ??    I'm mildly surprised the L/D was as low as 15 but I assumed the sink rate was pretty high.

There doesn't seem to be any agreement on the exact span of the S version.  My subjective impression was that the root and tip cords remained the same and just the span was stretched - possibly by increasing rib spacing ???   Of course you could be right and the taper remained the same with a smaller tip and your model certainly looks right.

Happy to scan the sales brochure if you don't already have it.

Paul

I'll be back home Tuesday, and will look up my files. A scan of the sales brochure would be very nice indeed. I never came across it in 20 years of weekly Ebay searches!

 

I'm no glider pilot, although I think it's the nicest form of aviation. I did design glider UAVs though, 5.5 meter span ones. The BD-5 is a long-time interest, I think it's a great design despite the motorisation problems. 

 

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sales brochure was given to me by the UK Bede dealer, back in the day - he seemed ancient but was probably younger than I am today !   He loved the BD5 and did not consider it was difficult to fly at all, in fact a joy.  I think from memory, he had one with a Honda Civic engine (does that sound right ?)

Its carefully hidden in a file somewhere but I should be able to locate by the time you are home.  

I struggle attaching images to the forum, so can you send me a pm with your email - that I can manage !

 

Gliding is indeed a magical way to fly. Impressed that you are a UAV designer - I now fly rc scale sailplanes almost that size !

Any idea if the L/D of 1/15 was calculated or measured ?   In the days before GPS it was very difficult to measure L/D in flight and it required a lot of expensive aerotows.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gary at Civilized models promised on 1st November my BD5 would be produced in the next few days and posted with tracking information.

We are now 13 days on and no contact so tomorrow will be the round fortnight and I will again contact him for an update / explanation.

My original order was 25 June !  and that's really not acceptable.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A sharp email brought a reply that the model has been cast and awaiting decals - posting promised for Monday - we shall see.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul, sadly, that's my experience too. But he did, finally, deliver after my sharply worded email.

 

BTW, if anybody wants the Coors Light decal sheet, send me a PM with your address and I'll mail it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well even allowing for the time difference between the UK and USA,   Monday has come and gone without any contact - disappointing.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After 10 days I sent a sharp reminder - now the model is going to be in the post Monday 2nd December and a free extra BD5 as an apology, whilst asking which I wanted. Having settled on the jet, I got another email immediately, asking which livery. Its a step in the right direction but we shall see.  I am keeping  a careful eye on the deadline for getting my money bck from Paypal.

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advised on Wednesday that the kits went in the post Monday but because of holidays, he won't be in the shop until Friday , when he will send the tracking link !

Really not sure what to make of that - and if it is enroute - will they arrive in the UK from the USA before my deadline for a Paypal claim expires ??

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I were you, I'd be filing the claim with PayPal by the deadline.

 

In my experience, the Royal Mail's tracking of items from abroad is inconsistent.  I sometimes have packages delivered with still no tracking updates. Even if you have a US tracking number before the deadline, there's no guarantee it's your package, or that he's sent what you ordered.

Edited by buzz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...