Ploesti Raiders

[Merv]

Having picked up the HobbyBoss B-24 Ì notice the instructions do not show a bombsight, though a Norden is on the sprues ,  I guess they flew without them. I would have thought  a Sperry sight would have been appropriate for a D, I'm also not sure the "raiders" had the ball turret, any thoughts?

[Red Dog]

Any thoughts?  ANY THOUGHTS?

'You lucky, lucky bast..d'

'Ohh! What wouldn't I give to be spat at in the face! Have a HB 1/32 B-24J! I sometimes hang awake at nights dreaming of being spat in the face having a HB 1/32 B-24J!

 

Sorry couldn't help myself.

 

Sorry I cant help you either Merv but I am looking at Robert Taylor's magnificent print of the Polesti Raiders 'Polesti - The Vital Misson' on my wall as I read your post.

Good luck with your research and I'd love to check in on you every now and then if you do happen to do a WIP

 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Red Dog

[Gooney Fan]

Good afternoon Merv

 

Forgive me for asking but which variant of B-24 do you have?

 

Gooney Fan

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello Merv

I would say you were probably right. In his study of Tidal wave mission The air battle of Ploesti, written in May 1949, Lt. Col. Edward B. Crossman mentions that special low-altitude bomb sights had been obtained for the raid, although he does not specifies the type. The ventral turret issue is somewhat less clear, but neither Crossman nor James W. Walker (in his book The Liberandos) never mention ball turrets nor their gunners. Crossman gives vivid account about an unfortunate train, which chanced to appeared under the path of bombers, and had been promptly strafed by formation's gunners. Again, only top and waist gunners are mentioned. I would say there is a fair chance ventral turrets had been dismantled for the raid and their gunners left behind, although I found no confirmation for this reasoning. Cheers

Jure

[FinnAndersen]

12 minutes ago, Jure Miljevic said:

.. I would say there is a fair chance ventral turrets had been dismantled for the raid and their gunners left behind, although I found no confirmation for this reasoning. ...

AFAIK the reason was the issue of range and that the raid was planned as a low level operation.

 

The bombers had quite far to go. Leaving the ball turret behind would give some extra miles to fly and opposing fighters would not be able to make attacks from below.

[Merv]

Thanks everyone I have the D model. I know that early D models had a tunnel gun and no ball turret, however strawberry bitch, a preserved raider has a ball turret. Checking photos of the raid I don't see evidence of ball turrets maybe the "bitch" was modified later. I'm interested by the low level bomb sight.

[72modeler]

According to the written references I have, the Sperry ball turret was not fitted to B-24D's until the B-24D-140-CO block, If you know the block number of a Tidal Wave B-24D, then you can determine whether or not it had the ball turret installed. On the Air Force Museum website, I found written reference to modifications made to the Libs that were used on the mission- extra fuel tanks were fitted in the front of the bomb bay, leaving the rear of the bay for 500 and  1,000 pound bombs and incendiaries, in addition to fixed .50cal nose guns on many aircraft. I am guessing that those Liberators from the three 8th AF squadrons that were 'loaned' for the mission that had ball turrets, kept them. I have seen some photos of  B-24D's taken during the raid that show ball turret retracted with the barrels visible. IIRC, I recall seeing B-24D's from block -55 all the way up to block -160 that were flown on the Ploesti raid, so I guess a photo of the one you would like to  model would be in order. I'm also guessing the ball turrets on those aircraft that had them kept them for use against fighters on the way to and from the target, as the aircraft were not on the deck until approaching and leaving the target, if memory serves.

 

As an aside, Cutting Edge is releasing several decal sets for Ploesti Raid B-24D's in both 1/72 and 1/48 scales along with a separate set of national markings and fin flashes of the several varieties applied to aircraft that were involved. You can go to their website to see the many aircraft depicted as well as the research that was involved. I have no connection with CE, nor do I receive any consideration for mentioning their products.

 

I hope this information will be useful. BTW, my two personal favorites are 'Hail Columbia.' John Kane's B-24D, and 'Teggie Ann,' Leon Johnson's Lib. (Killer Kane's Lib had extra fixed nose guns installed compared to the others, and this is pointed out on the CE decal sheet that has his airplane!)

Mike

[EwenS]

Strawberry Bitch was a block -160. Photos here

 

https://www.airplanesofthepast.com/b24-liberator-4272843-strawberry-bitch.htm

[72modeler]

42 minutes ago, EwenS said:

Strawberry Bitch was a block -160. Photos here

 

https://www.airplanesofthepast.com/b24-liberator-4272843-strawberry-bitch.htm

Yep- that's correct, but she was not involved in the 1943 Tidal Wave mission. Undoubtedly she made the last flight by a USAAF B-24 in 1959 when she was flown to the AFM by a B-47 pilot who flew B-24's during the war.

Mike

[Merv]

Thanks guys, I was sure Strawberry Bitch flew the mission so now I know. It appears that the bombsight was simply a modified gunsight according to my latest reading. Hopefully a decal manufacturer will issue "Snow White" soon. Regarding retracted ball turrets, (!) Could it be the tunell gun we are seeing?

[72modeler]

12 hours ago, Merv said:

Thanks guys, I was sure Strawberry Bitch flew the mission so now I know. It appears that the bombsight was simply a modified gunsight according to my latest reading. Hopefully a decal manufacturer will issue "Snow White" soon. Regarding retracted ball turrets, (!) Could it be the tunell gun we are seeing?

I don't think the tunnel gun .50 cal guns were stowed with the barrels straight down when fitted; the Sperry ball turret on the B-24, however, was retractable, unlike that of the B-17, but like the B-17, the turret had to be rotated straight down for the gunner to enter and exit. Very doubtful any of the 8th AF B-24's that were on the Ploesti mission had tunnel guns.

Mike

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[JohnT]

Not 100% on topic but I had a good close look at the ball turret on display at Duxford.  You need to meet two requirements to be a ball turret gunner 1 - small and 2 - either very brave or very crazy

[72modeler]

32 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Not 100% on topic but I had a good close look at the ball turret on display at Duxford.  You need to meet two requirements to be a ball turret gunner 1 - small and 2 - either very brave or very crazy

Both! Big brass ones, those ball turret gunners...at least the B-24 ball turret was retractable so the gunner could be extracted before a belly landing, especially in case of a jammed turret!

Mike

[JohnT]

47 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Both! Big brass ones, those ball turret gunners...at least the B-24 ball turret was retractable so the gunner could be extracted before a belly landing, especially in case of a jammed turret!

Mike

And from what I read at the museum the turret was such a tight fit the gunners parachute was in the plane. In an emergency his prospects of surviving by bailing out were minimal. I also recall that the B-17 and B-24 were different in that one was electrically powered and the other hydraulics. If the operating system failed one of them (I can’t recall which) could not be moved by the rest of the crew thereby imprisoning the gunner in the turret. Not for me I am afraid.