ckw Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Having read the rave reviews of Xtreme Metal, and looking for a good way of producing a NMF I invested in a range of bottles and gave it a go. First impression was very favourable - sprays easily and smoothly straight out the bottle (after vigorous shaking), and coverage is excellent which somewhat offsets the cost. Now, one of the big sells for me was the alleged 'maskabilty' of the paint. So after 24 hours drying I merrily masked off panels with Tammy tape and added some areas with a different shade (dark aluminum over aluminum). Everything went well until I removed the tape. Instead of the usual problem of the tape lifting the paint, I had the reverse ... glue from the tape was left on the paint! Perhaps a longer drying time was needed. So model was stripped, resprayed and left a full week before masking, this time with carefully 'de-tacked' Tamiya. Same result. Time to strip again. What I haven't mentioned is that the model had been primed with Mr Surfacer (as per my usual practice) - perhaps the primer was adversely reacting with Xtreme Metal? So another respray, this time without primer. Left a week to dry, remask, and the same problem. The 'net was no help in figuring this out, but I was made aware of the AK intermediate Gauzy Agent. Strip model again, respray then apply a coat of the Gauzy agent after 24 hours. Wait another day and mask. No problems at all. The Gauzy agent works well, provides a good finish without ruining the metallic look, and can be easily sprayed or brushed. But to my mind there is a downside. When shading different panels, sometimes the variation is more about shine than tone. So applying Gauzy over matt aluminum rather spoils the effect. A subsequent matting coat of something (I use flatted Future) would be needed, to to detriment of the metal look. On variation, I found the contrast between white aluminium, dark aluminium and aluminium too extreme - the aircraft would end up looking like a checkerboard. Now, I'm sure I saw in a Flory review that you couldn't mix the colors. I couldn't see why not as they're enamel based, and as (after all the above) I was on the verge of binning the lot anyway, I decided to give it a go. So I added a couple of drops of dark aluminium into an airbrush cup of aluminium and was able to spray a very pleasing subtle variation. Faith in AK partially restored. So a bit of a learning curve. I do like the paints, and the finish is excellent, but the masking problem has me flummoxed. The Gauzy solution is workable, but I'd rather not have to do it. The mixability means I can get all the variation I need (though I should stress I haven't intermixed all the possibilities - perhaps it won't work with polished aluminum). Big plusses are ease of application and cleanup (I use cellulose thinner), and robustness, esp. with Gauzy applied. Colin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Norman Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Ouch, I had the same thing happen with Mr Colour paints, Masking tape glue left on the white paint. Binned the kit in the end. these might help. http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/tools_techniques_and_reference_materials/f/18/t/141261.aspx http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/130897.aspx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Hi Colin Thanks sharing your experiences with Xtreme metals. I have to say that mine are very similar to yours. It sprays beautifully and dries to a hard finish but then the tape issue rears it’s ugly head. I should also say that I sprayed it over a coat of Xtreme black base. Like you I saw the Flory review and am wondering where I’ve gone wrong? I find you can also see where the edge of the tape was. This isn’t over spray by the way! Ive also started using Hataka orange line laquers recently which also spray very nicely and have had a similar problem with tape residue there to, even after de-tacking. Perhaps the Tamiya tape doesn’t like certain paints? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckw Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 One thing that occurs to me - in the reviews I've seen, we see the modeller merrily stick tape on the model and ripping it off immediately with no ill effect. The problem is that in real world masking, the tape often remains on the model for some time - and maybe this is giving the chance for paint and tape to interact so unpleasantly Colin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Disappointing news, as I was about to invest significant $$$ in a supply of the Xtreme Metal paints. But I have always "de-tacked' any masking tape, including Tamiya's, prior to use by sticking it to my anatomy* first. I wonder if that would help in the case of Xtreme Metal. Alternatively, maybe Post-it Notes would work better. Or a strip of paper with no adhesive whatsoever. *My forehead, you perverts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwh548 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Xtreme Metal is by far my favourite line of metal paints. I'm mostly using their Polished Aluminium and their Gunmetal (since I'm still working on finishing my MM paints). I love how despite the fact they're enamels they dry perfectly pretty fast and can be overcoated with GX varnishes (which are my favourites by far) without significant changes to their shade. I haven't had the paint lifting problems after removing masking tape. I have had, though, the same issue with tape residue. Several experiments later I discovered that even though you can spray AK's stuff in the "let her rip" attitude you really shouldn't. If you spray a heavy coat the solvent will soak into the tape and after removing it you'll have a mess. Once I started to spray very light coats the problem went away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckw Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Indeed it is disappointing ... I did detack the tammy tape (to the point it was falling off the model) ... I also tried washi tape in case it was a tammy issue. Same result. The good news is that if you use gauzy agent all is well and the final result seems pretty robust with no masking problems. I also had success with mr masking sol r but not keen on using this for air frames Ultimately this paint has strengths but also weaknesses ... asdo all others Colin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckw Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, bmwh548 said: Xtreme Metal is by far my favourite line of metal paints. I'm mostly using their Polished Aluminium and their Gunmetal (since I'm still working on finishing my MM paints). I love how despite the fact they're enamels they dry perfectly pretty fast and can be overcoated with GX varnishes (which are my favourites by far) without significant changes to their shade. I haven't had the paint lifting problems after removing masking tape. I have had, though, the same issue with tape residue. Several experiments later I discovered that even though you can spray AK's stuff in the "let her rip" attitude you really shouldn't. If you spray a heavy coat the solvent will soak into the tape and after removing it you'll have a mess. Once I started to spray very light coats the problem went away. Interesting ... and somewhat contrary to the way ak demo it. I'll give it a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Hmmm. Weird! My one experience with masking Xtreme Metal so far was masking individual panels on an Airfix Sabre to pick out the darker gun bay panels and exhaust over the rest of the aluminium airframe. I did not have any problems with the Tamiya tape leaving residue behind. That doesn't mean it didn't happen to you, but maybe there is more happening here. could the problem also be related to temperature or humidity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckw Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Thought about this but autumn in south of England does not have abnormal heat or humidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 That's an odd one, I use AK Xtreme Metals all the time and have never had that problem (I do believe you have though, not trying to say you haven't had this problem). I usually prime with Mr Surfacer too. I do de-tack the tape out of habit as much as anything and have had occasional problems with the paint lifting but usually on areas that haven't had a good coat like leading edges etc. I spray fairly light coats as they cover so well there is no advantage in spraying them in a wet coat, you didn't say whether you apply light or wet coats, other than that I'm not sure what to suggest to help you out. I use Alclad's Aquagloss to seal them in for decals although you don't have to, again it's habitual for me. After decals and weathering I use Gunze GX semi gloss etc to get the final finish I want. With regards to mixing them I do that too with no issues and will also go over the whole kit with a coat to tone down the patchwork effect if it is too obvious. I've never used the Gauzy stuff as I'm not sure what it actually is I have had tamiya tape leaving marks on paintwork before though when using the Aqueous Mr Hobby range, particularly gloss colours, but found a handy tip that suggested spraying over the paint with a neat coat of Mr Levelling Thinners and that did help to settle it out somewhat. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 This guy was painted partly by AKEM, Alclad II and Halford's Aluminium. - no problems with tape masking. Some of masks stayed for quite some time BUT! I applied the masks only when the paint had sufficient time to dry (several hours) - I DID mix various shades of AKEM without any problems - Primed with Mr. Surfacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckw Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Thanks for all the responses its good to know I'm not alone even better to know some people have had success I suspect my big error is using wet coats, as the Flory review seems to suggest this is OK. On my next attempt I'll use very light coats. De-tacking the tape seems advisable, and I also suspect that the masking tape should be removed ASAP, so I'll need to adjust my workflow accordingly. I have a couple of smallish subjects in my stash to refine my technique before moving on to my big projects: DC-4, B-24 and B-29. I've been holding of on these for quite some time while finding an NMF method that works for me. Masking issues aside, I'm pretty impressed with AKEM both in terms of use and final finish. One other minor niggle is that brush based application doesn't seem to work - I tried applying a different tint to a small access door. The result wasn't pretty, however I can address this with Humbrol Metalcote or Gunze Mr Metal. Cheers Colin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 36 minutes ago, ckw said: I suspect my big error is using wet coats Yes. I have missed that, but this explains your case perfectly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, ckw said: Thanks for all the responses its good to know I'm not alone even better to know some people have had success I suspect my big error is using wet coats, as the Flory review seems to suggest this is OK. On my next attempt I'll use very light coats. De-tacking the tape seems advisable, and I also suspect that the masking tape should be removed ASAP, so I'll need to adjust my workflow accordingly. I have a couple of smallish subjects in my stash to refine my technique before moving on to my big projects: DC-4, B-24 and B-29. I've been holding of on these for quite some time while finding an NMF method that works for me. Masking issues aside, I'm pretty impressed with AKEM both in terms of use and final finish. One other minor niggle is that brush based application doesn't seem to work - I tried applying a different tint to a small access door. The result wasn't pretty, however I can address this with Humbrol Metalcote or Gunze Mr Metal. Cheers Colin I have brush painted tiny areas with AKXM but the solvent is very powerful and will lift previous coats if you try to do a larger area. If you want to paint metal colours get some acrylic like the Games Workshop metal colours, they are great for brush painting over other Metallics, Mission Models metallic colours are useful for that too. 39 minutes ago, Pin said: Yes. I have missed that, but this explains your case perfectly I'd go along with that, don't use wet coats. Nice smooth light coats, keep the airbrush moving steadily along approx 15cm above the surface or less if you can (the further the paint has to travel through the air the more it will dry out before it hits the model). The paint will be touch dry in 5 minutes and I have masked over it within an hour when in a rush but tend to leave it overnight before masking for the next round. I usually remove the masking tape within a few minutes of applying the paint unless I have a lot of painting to do on top (I currently have 2x F-4 Phantoms which have had their NMF masked off for approx 3 years (don't ask!) but I don't expect there to be any issues when I remove the tape. Another top tip is to reuse the strips of masking tape to mask off other areas if you need to, just remove them and stick them on your cutting mat. I reuse mine until they literally won't stick to anything at all. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasermonkey Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Whenever I have had residue left by Tamiya tape, I have successfully removed it using more Tamiya tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puyo3 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) On 10/23/2019 at 5:04 AM, ckw said: Now, I'm sure I saw in a Flory review that you couldn't mix the colors. I couldn't see why not as they're enamel based, and as (after all the above) I was on the verge of binning the lot anyway, I decided to give it a go. So I added a couple of drops of dark aluminium into an airbrush cup of aluminium and was able to spray a very pleasing subtle variation. Faith in AK partially restored. So a bit of a learning curve. I do like the paints, and the finish is excellent, but the masking problem has me flummoxed. The Gauzy solution is workable, but I'd rather not have to do it. The mixability means I can get all the variation I need (though I should stress I haven't intermixed all the possibilities - perhaps it won't work with polished aluminum). Big plusses are ease of application and cleanup (I use cellulose thinner), and robustness, esp. with Gauzy applied. Colin Hello, have you followed up regarding the mixability question? I cannot find a definitive source to confirm that the AKEM can be mixed with other metallics in the line without issues; as you mentioned, Flory stated that he had problems with the mixture turning gritty. Please if you would let us know your conclusions if in fact you have mixed the metallics successfully or not. Also, if anyone can offer their experience with this question, that would be greatly appreciated. Edited July 6, 2020 by puyo3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planebuilder62 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Great thread, I`m glad to see I am not alone with tape residue being left behind and that there is a solution. regards Toby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckw Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 3 hours ago, puyo3 said: Hello, have you followed up regarding the mixability question? I have jars of 50/50 Aluminium and white Aluminium 50/50 Aluminium and dark alumimium 50/50 Matt aluminium and white aluminium 50/50 matt aluminium and aluminium Which I made up 3 or 4 months ago, and these have all sprayed fine and seem to keep in the jar just as unmixed versions. Not thinned in anyway. Not noticed any grittiness. And as a further update, avoiding wet coats has solved my masking problems, though I should also say I have been very cautious with my masking ever since, using heavily de-tacked tape and planning my work to leave it on for as short a time as possible. I also use parafilm if a repair/respray would be a problem. Cheer, Colin 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puyo3 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Great, thanks for your reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceAddict Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 For those that have stripped AK Xtreme metal off a model, can I ask how? I used their Xtreme metal thinner and it's done something weird to the parts I stripped... almost as if it's softened the plastic? Not sure. Letting it dry up and going to try again, hopefully after a little input from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, RaceAddict said: I used their Xtreme metal thinner I didn’t even know this product existed, I’ve always used their Xtreme metals neat, straight out of the bottle. It’s quite thin enough for my liking. Hope you find an answer to your question. Cheers.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceAddict Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said: I didn’t even know this product existed, I’ve always used their Xtreme metals neat, straight out of the bottle. It’s quite thin enough for my liking. Hope you find an answer to your question. Cheers.. Dave I don't actually use it to thin the product, more to clean up the airbrush. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 1 hour ago, RaceAddict said: I don't actually use it to thin the product, more to clean up the airbrush. Normal Hardware grade Lacquer thinner does the trick for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now