A Summer Where the Bad Light Stopped

[Tomoshenko]

Good work on the Spitfires, keep it up and keep building loads as good things happen when you do. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

Quite true!  As a kid Thanksgiving was 2nd only to Christmas in my list of favorite holidays because I got to see relatives I adored and rarely saw. Thanksgivings went smoothly at our house because all of my relatives got along quite well.  I wish everyone had the same experience!  

 

It seems that my relatives started not getting along only in the last 10 years or so.  Weird.

Im happy to know my relatives were somewhat rarer and not everyone fought. Then again when some of your family are career military. And yet others are career bikers of the somewhat outlaw variety. It also can make for interesting family reunions. Unfortunately and sadly it seems that it does creep in sometimes. Sorry to hear that, Did something happen 10 years ago to cause the not getting along to start ? 

[opus999]

11 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Then again when some of your family are career military. And yet others are career bikers of the somewhat outlaw variety. It also can make for interesting family reunions.

I can imagine! Wow...

 

11 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Did something happen 10 years ago to cause the not getting along to start ?

No, except maybe aging? It's been gradual and on both sides of the family. My grandparents all passed away between '05 and '09, so maybe they were the glue that kept the families together?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Oh BTW Happy Thanksgiving PC. Sorry for muddying up your build thread. 

[opus999]

Same here... 

[tonyh]

18 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Oh BTW Happy Thanksgiving PC. Sorry for muddying up your build thread. 

What he said 

Tony

[Procopius]

No worries, fellas! We had a surprisingly pleasant Thanksgiving, all things considered. Winston slept over with his grandma and grandpa, because both his good and bad qualities remind his grandmother of little Edward about 32 years ago, and I passed out while reading to Grant, so that Mrs P discovered us both out cold when she came up to see if everyone was okay at about 9 PM. Win also got to hold his new cousin, Rosemary:

 

 

 

This morning we all walked over to my parents' and reclaimed Winston, then played in a park and walked home, where Winston threw a paper airplane directly into his mother's eye, because that's who he is, and then things proceeded more or less as they normally do in such matters, until everyone was exhausted and we all took naps: Grant in his crib in our room, Mrs P on the sofa in the TV room, and me (and latterly Winston) on the futon in what's called the middle room but was intended as the dining room when the house was built in 1921. That seemed to sort us all out, and we had pierogis (after the Polish Air Force in exile, possibly Poland's greatest contribution to a better world) for dinner and after reading about a million stories we got the kids in bed annnnnd it was grotto time!

 

I've read reports that if care isn't taken, the Airfix Spitfire I is a little lacking in dihedral, so I thought I'd try and be a little strategic about things; I attached the lower wing first, yes, but when I glued the upper surfaces on, I did so gradually, starting at the root, and it seems to have worked.

 

 

It wouldn't be a Procopius build without a big, gluey fingerprint, however, and I managed to furnish one:

 

 

Idiot.

 

Hopefully some Mr Surfacer will sort it out:

 

 

 

So here we are now:

 

 

 

Next steps are close up the cockpits and get to sanding seams and so forth. Puttering along!

 

 

 

 

[Stew Dapple]

Good progress mate  

 

Bit jealous about the pierogis, I looked them up and they sound delicious. There's a nice Polski Sklep on Victoria Road in Dundee, I wonder if they sell them pre-made...? 

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[CedB]

Pleased to hear you had "a surprisingly pleasant Thanksgiving" PC AND got some snoozes in!  

 

Nice work on the Spits too. 

Now I know what Mr Surfacer is good for I'll hold on to my bottle, just in case…

[Hamden]

 

Spitfires coming together nicely now!

Looking forward to seeing them in paint

 

      Roger

[AdrianMF]

2 hours ago, Procopius said:

big, gluey fingerprint

A man has to have a signature! Glad your Thanksgiving went well.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Procopius]

10 hours ago, Stew Dapple said:

Bit jealous about the pierogis, I looked them up and they sound delicious. There's a nice Polski Sklep on Victoria Road in Dundee, I wonder if they sell them pre-made...? 

They are! I'm frankly astonished you've never run across them before, they're one of the lights of my life. You can get frozen ones at pretty much any supermarket around here, and I work within walking distance of the aptly-named Pierogi Heaven. 

 

10 hours ago, CedB said:

Now I know what Mr Surfacer is good for I'll hold on to my bottle, just in case…

Oh yes, I defy you to find a model I've built that doesn't have the crenellations left by my fingertips filled in with Mr Surfacer.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 12:55 PM, opus999 said:

On a related note, do you know of and/or can recommend a book that points out the differences between Spitfire Marks?  I'm fairly confident I know the external differences (through a lot of painstaking research), but I would like to find a book to describe them to see if I missed anything.  I got the Squadron "Spitfire in Action" book and it really didn't do a great job of describing differences in Marks.  Not like their Bf-109 book that started each chapter with a list and diagrams of how this model was different from the previous model.

 

Hmmm, it's hard to pick just one book (and I freely confess, though not without deep shame, that when I joined this parish in 2011 or so, I was pretty hazy on the different marks beyond I, V, and IX). My introduction was the old Harelyford Spitfire, the Story of a Famous Fighter, which goes mark by mark, but is pretty dated. Probably the as-close-to-definitive-as-you're-gonna-get book is Morgan and Shacklady's Spitfire: The History, which has a complete serial number history and tons of photos and drawings of all sorts of changes; I used it to research when and where the two Spitfires I'm building here were made. It's a pretty dry read, but an excellent reference.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 12:55 PM, opus999 said:

Somehow I just now saw this.... certainly  more than 50 minutes!  I appreciate the offer, but I think it is a bad time for me to make any big model related purchases... what with Christmas coming up and a big car repair bill we just got...

Car repair bill! You have my sympathies. They always seem to break right around now, don't they.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 12:55 PM, opus999 said:

Another question I wanted to ask: How are you moving your models? The last time I moved I devised a packing system using those pressed paperboard coffee cup holders.  The ones that hold four coffee cups that you get at an Espresso stand.  I found if I put a model between two of them, the coffee cup holders would hold the wings securely so that it wouldn't move around, and they were cushioned reasonable well. I had to trim some of the coffee cup holders so they wouldn't interfere with antennas and the like. I'm not proposing this as a solution for you, I was just curious if you had a better system, because frankly mine seemed kludgey.  I hope with all my might that I will never have to move again as it is an unbelievable headache (as you know).

I'm not sure. We've backed out of the house near us that we were considering (the roof needed $4400 worth of repairs and they wouldn't give us a closing credit for it), so now we're looking at homes much further away, possibly even out of state, to avoid Illinois's extortionate taxes on homeownership. (NB I don't mind paying my fair share, but I do object to supporting a deeply corrupt and almost insolvent state as it flailingly wastes money to no purpose. Wisconsin may not be much better, but it is much cheaper. Which means I can continue or even expand my one-man efforts to prop up the Anglo-Czech-Polish axis of modelbuilding nations' economies.) So before I could just have walked to the new place with the models in my arms like the precious babies they are to me, but now...no idea. 

 

On 11/28/2019 at 5:21 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

A Peewit mask?  WTF?  Is that some kind of weird avian gimp thing?  I mean, whatever floats yer boat and all that, but a peewit?

I'd do anything for Mrs P's love, but I won't do that. 

 

No, a Peewit mask is a cheaper washi tape mask competitor to Eduard, and they have the virtue of doing masks for some of the more outre kits out there, but I misspoke on this one; the masks are actually by Pmask of Poland, who do both vinyl (boo!) and washi tape masks, though Hannants only sells the former, and I have to get my washi tape masks by Pmask from a US ebay seller. 

 

On 11/28/2019 at 4:45 AM, DJJunis said:

Hi Mr.P,

 

If I may suggest for next time. I usually thin the seats down to a more scale appearance. Good luck on the sale of the house..we'll be doing the same next spring. Still staying in the area ..just o none floor somewhere.

North suburbs are great, or at least I really love Highwood. 

 

Good tip on the seats, will do!

[dogsbody]

34 minutes ago, Procopius said:

(NB I don't mind paying my fair share, but I do object to supporting a deeply corrupt and almost insolvent state as it flailingly wastes money to no purpose.

 

Then for sure don't move up here! Our federal leader has been throwing our money everywhere but back into the country. And he's trying to strangle the most profitable province and it's major capital creating resource too!

 

 

Sorry for this political outburst. I'll remove it if it's too offensive.

 

 

 

Chris

[Troy Smith]

On 28/11/2019 at 18:55, opus999 said:

On a related note, do you know of and/or can recommend a book that points out the differences between Spitfire Marks?  I'm fairly confident I know the external differences (through a lot of painstaking research), but I would like to find a book to describe them to see if I missed anything.  I got the Squadron "Spitfire in Action" book and it really didn't do a great job of describing differences in Marks.

I just typed out a response and lost it. damn.

The Spitfire Story by Alfred Price is a lot more readable than Spitfire - the History,  well illustrated and cheap... does not cover Seafires though.

https://www.amazon.com/Spitfire-Story-Alfred-Price/dp/184425819X

 

Not one for marks, but great references are Spitfire at War1, 2 and 3

https://www.amazon.com/Spitfire-War-Dr-Alfred-Price/dp/0711005605/

1 and 2 were published as two for one, they are packed with large clear well captioned photos and will reveal new details all the time.

https://www.amazon.com/Spitfire-Complete-Fighting-History-English/dp/1856480151

and is available really cheaply.  (same in UK ) 

 

and 3

https://www.amazon.com/Spitfire-at-War-Price-Alfred/dp/0711019339

not usually as cheap, but still great.

 

[Troy Smith]

13 hours ago, Procopius said:

It wouldn't be a Procopius build without a big, gluey fingerprint, however, and I managed to furnish one:

 

 

Can't remember which scheme you are doing, but the outer well part is the underside colour AFAIK, inner leg part is aluminium.

 

 

From that servicing film I posted

 

neat work so far. 

cheers

 

T

 

[Procopius]

On 11/30/2019 at 1:47 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

Can't remember which scheme you are doing, but the outer well part is the underside colour AFAIK, inner leg part is aluminium.

 

If it's good enough for the BBMF, it's more than good enough for me:

 

IMG_20191107_095302 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

45 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

...does not cover Seafires though...

What sacrilege is this?  
 

Only joking, obvs - but that does deprive you of the FR46/47, the wondrous end of the line.

[Troy Smith]

 

I have only seen 1 photo showing a different well colour to the underside colour,  

And this is most certainly an oddity, with odd wings and an a black(?) underside? 

In every other wartime photo where the well wall can be seen, it's the same as the underside.

 

In the major conurbation near your home, there resides a ex-BoB Spitfire still resplendent in original DFS paint from Training Command, please note the well colour. 

 

 

 

and quite possibly mere layers of paint away,  genuine BoB  paint.

 

more here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/59537-the-definitive-spitfire-mk1-thread/&do=findComment&comment=641776

 

I'm rather surprised, nay, disappointed,  that you have not been on the news for chaining your self to an exhibit in the Chicago Museum (or elsewhere) and demanding it is brought from the ceiling and sanded back forensically to determine this....

 

Go on, you know you want too.  

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Theres a really great Polish deli here on the Southside PC. They make them fresh as well as the Smoked Kielbasa. 

[Procopius]

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

In the major conurbation near your home, there resides a ex-BoB Spitfire still resplendent in original DFS paint from Training Command, please note the well colour. 

 

 

 

 

Sadly the Museum of Science and Industry kind of sucks aside from the Spitfire (unless you like U-boats, and I don't, unless they're sinking), but I'll note that P9306 is (a) a year older than either of the two Spitfires I'm building, since she was ordered before the war in April of 1939 and first flew at the very start of 1940, meaning she likely came from the factory with a very different underside scheme to those of my two June 1940-built examples, and spent a lot of her life being shuffled around between MUs. In any case, it's always going to be a matter of personal opinion regarding wheel wells, because weirdly, nobody during the Battle of Britain was very interested in them, and so we have to extrapolate. In this case, I've chosen the option that seems to me to be the easiest.

 

40 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Theres a really great Polish deli here on the Southside PC. They make them fresh as well as the Smoked Kielbasa. 

Tempter!

 

3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Only joking, obvs - but that does deprive you of the FR46/47, the wondrous end of the line.

So do most kitmakers in the good scale, though I've built one CMR Seafire 47 and have another in reserve -- but I found one really needs to steal bits and decals from the good-only-for-parts Special Hobby kit.

[Troy Smith]

2 minutes ago, Procopius said:

, but I'll note that P9306 is (a) a year older than either of the two Spitfires I'm building, since she was ordered before the war in April of 1939 and first flew at the very start of 1940, meaning she likely came from the factory with a very different underside scheme to those of my two June 1940-built examples

depend WHEN in June, early on, still BHlack/white, then Sky at the factory

 

2 minutes ago, Procopius said:

 

, and spent a lot of her life being shuffled around between MUs. In any case, it's always going to be a matter of personal opinion regarding wheel wells

erm, no.

2 minutes ago, Procopius said:

, because weirdly, nobody during the Battle of Britain was very interested in them, and so we have to extrapolate. In this case, I've chosen the option that seems to me to be the easiest.

OK,  I have got a bit of a hobby horse on this,  I have posted at points every photo I can find which shows the wheel well wall clearly, (except for the Vc I posted above,)  every shot has shown the well sides and underside are the same.  

  

Then there is this

On 07/01/2015 at 20:52, Edgar said:

It rather needs a little lateral thinking, since Supermarine drawings advocated interior areas (except the cockpit and engine bearers) should be silver, but it's a rather moot point if you consider the wheel wells to be interior areas, or not. Oleo legs and door interiors started off silver, but anything could (and did) happen in the first two years of war.

Given that the Defiant, Hurricane and Typhoon wells were all silver, I tend to go with the idea that the Spitfire would have been the same (cue photo of Spitfire with black & white wells,) but the block and noose are now obsolete, so it's really your choice.

ta-dah! 

 

I also posted a load more in response to Edgar's comment,  and received no response

they are here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234974004-question-for-wwii-aircraft-manufacturing-experts/&do=findComment&comment=1851442

 

Again, it's the interior/exterior definition.   You can see the inside of the wheel bit from outside, so it's the external colour.   The leg section you can, so it's interior.  And look at the structure. 

painting it like this is bonkers,   think about the physical act of painting a Spitfire wing,  either some very careful masking, or the exterior finish coat....

 

The photographic record backs this up.    I posted the one photo which shows a difference, to show the difference....  

 

Apologies @Procopius,  not meant as personal attack,   but an element of frustration,  that the available evidence seems to be being dismissed without any contrary evidence ...

 

Of course, your model, paint them purple if you like.....

 

 

[Procopius]

Just now, Troy Smith said:

Apologies @Procopius,  not meant as personal attack,   but an element of frustration,  that the available evidence seems to be being dismissed without any contrary evidence ...

It's fine, it's just that for right now, I don't care. I will care in the future, I promise! But the wings are closed up and I'm not going back to do anything about it.

[Troy Smith]

8 minutes ago, Procopius said:

I will care in the future, I promise!

 

I can see it now...

 

Quote

Chicago Sun Times, 2025

A local man was today institutionalised after trying to take an extending ladder and various grades of sandpaper into the  Museum of Science and Industry,  as he was led away, he was heard to be sobbing quietly

"but I have to know for sure"

 

 

[Procopius]

Today Winston had his first solo in Il-2; he picked a P-47:

 

The little chap managed to do a fairly creditable job of keeping it in the air and when he finally crashed, it was a graceful wheels-up landing. 

 

 

Anyway, managed to make it downstairs tonight after catching a few episodes of Silicon Valley with Mrs P (whose favourite show it currently is). 

 

The big news is that one Spit just needs sanding to be ready for primer:

 

 

And the other is coming along:

 

 

So one issue I've long had with Airfix Spitfire Is is the fuselage fuel cap, or rather its absence in an area that's hard to sand:

 

 

Fortunately, I have a hugely-expensive highly specialized tool of very limited utility for just such eventualities!

 

 

The second-largest punch, a 1.4(mm?) one, worked perfectly.

 

 

*Fanfare*

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RadMax8]

I think that speaks volumes to the design of the P-47... so rugged even a child can land it!

 

I’m so happy you got to use your punch set. I feel like that’s something I’ve never had the willingness to spend money on. Even though I now possess the means to purchase one, I simply cannot justify the value. I have a belt-hole punch that I use instead!

 

Looks like you planes are coming along nicely. Huzzah for progress!