mackem01 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) My current projects are suffering something of a bottleneck at the moment and I'm looking for something to keep my juices flowing. I have a Monogram F86F boxing, kit no 5427 with decals for The Huff. I'm asking you (Sabre buffs in particular) if it's possible to convert it to an F.Mk4 and if so what needs to be done. I'm sorry, I know this subject crops up quite regularly, but I can't seem to find any relevant posts so any help of pointers would be greatly received. If the kit can't be used to do an F.Mk4 then is it good for any other Mks? T.I.A...... Edited October 18, 2019 by mackem01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 If I remember this kit rightly it can make a 4 with no issues you just have to chose a serial number appropriate to the wing in the kit. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks for the reply Julien - I was planning on 66 sqn's XD753/ AF⚡O. Pictures of her on the ground seem to show a 6-3 wing, so that saves some fiddly work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jordi said: RAF Mk.4s were all delivered with the narrow chord slatted wing. This isn't correct: many later deliveries came with the 6-3 wing factory-installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 The 6-3 was introduced towards the end of Sabre 4 production: there is a specific s/n which introduced it, which I'll post if I can locate it quickly. For now a couple of delivery shots: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) For all things RAF Sabre, you ought to buy Duncan's "The Canadair Sabre in RAF Service". Tony(a displaced mackem) PS appendix 2 has the list of serials that had the 6-3 wing installed at the factory, the 6-3 wing started being factory installed with 19801. Edited October 18, 2019 by Tony Edmundson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: For all things RAF Sabre, you ought to buy Duncan's "The Canadair Sabre in RAF Service". Tony(a displaced mackem) PS appendix 2 has the list of serials that had the 6-3 wing installed at the factory, the 6-3 wing started being factory installed with 19801. Nice one Tony: I knew it was somewhere. I'd forgotten about that book! Edited October 19, 2019 by Sabrejet 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Sabrejet said: Nice one Tony: I new it was somewhere. I'd forgotten about that book! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldwin8 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 As per Milberry's Sabre book c/n 701 (XD780) started the 6-3 non-slatted wing. I always prefer the use of constructor numbers but hope this helps with the RAF serial. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 If the very front of the wing (right at the leading edge of the root) is attached to the fold-down ammo door when open (like in the pic above) then its the 6-3 wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ossington said: If the very front of the wing (right at the leading edge of the root) is attached to the fold-down ammo door when open (like in the pic above) then its the 6-3 wing. In the beginning, it was a removable corner of leading edge, later they simply attached it to the ammo door. Tony check Sabrejet’s first pic above Edited October 19, 2019 by Tony Edmundson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: In the beginning, it was a removable corner of leading edge, later they simply attached it to the ammo door. Tony check Sabrejet’s first pic above Yep- I've seen it done three ways- removed and placed on the wing or on the ground; attached to a chain and dangling from the wing; attached to the ammo access door. Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayprit Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 A past Britmodeller Sabre topic may help demystify the wing confusion...………...check thread 7 for diagrams of various wing configuratrion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 6 hours ago, rayprit said: A past Britmodeller Sabre topic may help demystify the wing confusion...………...check thread 7 for diagrams of various wing configuratrion the only 'mystified wing confusion' was introduced by the posts from Jordi. Every other post including the OP is nice and orderly. We have it sorted Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayprit Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: the only 'mystified wing confusion' was introduced by the posts from Jordi. Every other post including the OP is nice and orderly. We have it sorted Tony I find that whenever anybody on this and any other site decide to build an RAF Sabre, the wing characteristics comes up.....its so confusing to a beginner as to what wing and mods were incorporated into this aircraft. People who know this aircraft reasonably well think that writing lots and lots of technical jargon will solve the problem, when in fact it only adds to it...……...a picture speaks a thousand words, a diagram even more to show the variations...…..my motto, or so I have been told is KISS Keep It Simple Son!!! I built a Sabre sometime ago and found Roger Lindsay's Cold War Shield and Duncan's book a great help...………..the forums on here have plenty of Sabre builds, all more or less talking of confusion and covering of the wing chord. I thought this one particular build that l showed explained to the beginner just what people are talking about when the subject of Sabre wing configuration is brought up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 There's a certain bit of irony in that graphic that I quoted in that previous thread. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Jordi said: Sorry if I caused confusion. I have ordered the RAF Sabre book for my library. No one's perfect and with luck we never stop learning: you'll probably find a load of errors in that book too! One thing I did notice is that the camouflage scheme on the RH side around the wing root is different on slatted aircraft versus the 6-3-winged aircraft camo: note how the demarcation meets at the wing root/leading edge on the hard-edge machine in the background and doesn't on the slatted version. I've looked at a lot of photos and for 2ATAF machines (blue undersides and higher demarcation), it seems widespread. Many camo schemes are quite flexible in their application areas but the RAF Sabre scheme was quite strictly adhered to. These are 130 Sqn aircraft (photo John Oxenford) shown at the time they were being received by the squadron. 130 standardised on the 6-3 aircraft and sent the slatted Sabres elsewhere. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, rayprit said: People who know this aircraft reasonably well think that writing lots and lots of technical jargon will solve the problem, when in fact it only adds to it Sorry, some of us are aircraft engineers, we can't help but speak in that jargon. What perhaps we're not very good at is understanding that there are people out there that don't understand the technicalities of what we're speaking about. Edited October 20, 2019 by Wez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Sabrejet said: No one's perfect and with luck we never stop learning: you'll probably find a load of errors in that book too! I have only found one to date, and that was because an old Modeldecal sheet had the same aircraft on it and a small picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Jordi said: Interestingly the aircraft in the foreground has slats while the rear one has a hard wing. Um...you need to read the text that goes with the photo...🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackem01 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Gents, thanks for all those very thorough answers - every one has helped in some way. Armed with this info I will be off to terrify some plastic. Wipe to follow (and more questions no doubt!). Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 8 hours ago, mackem01 said: Gents, thanks for all those very thorough answers - every one has helped in some way. Armed with this info I will be off to terrify some plastic. Wipe to follow (and more questions no doubt!). Cheers... Looking forward to it: we're happy to help. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Jordi said: Um... I did. Does that change the fact that I find it interesting that one aircraft has slats and the other does not? I’m confused by your confusion. Your comment was more of a statement that one was slatted and the other not whereby Ducan had already made that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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