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woody37

1/48 Halifax 346 Sqn PN365 (H7-B)

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6 hours ago, tonyot said:

Hiya Neil,...... I`ve had a look through the book,...... found a couple of photos and info;

 

- MZ737 H7-B which is an early B.III, there is a plan view photo depicting squared off wing tips. .... ex 158 Sqn, dates for sorties that I could find with 346 Sqn are-  14 July 44, 6 Oct 44, 9 Oct 44, 5 Dec 44. It wore the codes B, V & G and was  recorded as Stroke in French,... which I presume is Written Off or Lost in Action?

 

-RG646- H7-B another B.III, there is a photo of the crew stood in front of the nose, showing nose artwork of a duck with a club inside a circle, plus there is a colour side view drawing. I found a crew listing for a sortie in April 45 and S/C Derribaude is not listed in the crew.

 

-RG625- H7-B a Mk,VI, this a/c came from 347 Sqn where it was L8-A.

 

-LL573- H7-B?,...... the photo from the earlier post where we wondered if he was in the crew,...... the book does caption it as H7-B,.....however the tables actually list it as L8-E! The crew in the photo are L-R Sgt Letoublon, Sgt Berges,S/Lt de Miras, Sgt Blandin, S/C Bin, Sgt Lobelle, Sgt Picot. .... and they are a 347 Sqn crew,.... therefore I would say that the Halifax in the photo is L8-B,...serial unknown.

 

-LLl124- H7-B,.....no further details.

 

-PN365- H7-B,......your preferred aircraft!  This B.III only ever wore the codes H7-B and was recorded as on operations on the following dates,..... 21 Dec 44 & 13 Jan 44,.... delivered brand new and presumably lost or written off,..... the French description was Stroke? 

 

S/C. C. Derribehude was listed in the book,.....service number 81056, trade Radio Operator. He was in the crew of Lt. Barthelot in one sortie list that that I could find. 

 

I could not find my copy of the Air Britain Halifax File despite searching everywhere,.....if I find it I`ll let you know. If you want any more info or copies of the pics,....let me know,..... you are welcome to borrow the book too mate,

Cheers,

           Tony

 

PS,.... I finished that little Arma Hurricane that I was showing you,....I`ve stuck it on RFI. 

 

   

Thanks Tony, you’ve been busy today! I’ll pop over and have a look at your Hurricane now :)

 

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Hi  Mr Woody37

 

What I've found is the best reference book is the Haynes book on the Halifax, it seems to have the best reference material all gathered in one place.

 

As far as the rear turret goes...because of the dimension problems with the rear of the FM Halifax's the vac-u-form clear turret is dimensionally off (yet its with all their vac clear parts). Its under sized somewhat in width and length. But if it doesn't worry you just rock on. I wish there was a replacement kit for the turret out there but there is not. I believe some Greek guy did a MkII in 1/48 and he may have a WIP construction photo/drawing (before paint) of that turret...it may help. A balsa or card master is a good start just for getting the dimensions right...At looking at my fuselage it looks a little fat scaled up from my Revell 1/72 kit....so check the width before you glue it together. Once you start it.. it all starts moving quickly.

 

I talked about the new Revell Beaufighter 1/48 engines they are really terrible (shame Mr Revell) except you might be ale to play around with them by cross fitt'n with some Tamiya engine parts. That inside engine which powers the APU has the exhaust on the opposite side to the other three...so because of the breakdown of the Revell engines it might make it possible. I do like the rear of the Revell Beau engine and the flared cooling gills...which many Halifax are seen with. I think Tamiya Beaufighter hubs is a start for the props...I got Roy to cast some few parts from masters I made but he may have thrown out the silicon molds. I believe as far as the porcupine flame dampers go...MDC did some for their DB-7/Boston night fighter conversion in 1/48. Not sure of their accuracy but its just a suggestion to get over that hump. Again you would need 4x of them...and a resin cast. 

 

The Tamiya Lancaster could provide you with better seats and I believe there are 1/48 resin radios etc from cutting edge....and a lost-wax-brass Lewis gun. A cleaned up Beaufighter control stick and rudder pedals could be used? The Norden bomb sight is a whole other issue in 1/48 and because of that big clear nose I know of no other resource for one. The new 1/48 HK B-17 possibly...

 

Not sure about this one....but I think 1/72 Beaufighter activation arms for the elevators could be used for the elevator trim tabs for the Halifax MkIII?

 

The bomb bays (wings and fuselage) is a whole other issue and would require scratch-building to get it right. Shame Eduard couldn't enlarge their 1/72 sets to 1/48 for the Revell 1/72 BIII...but that is only thinking allowed. The bi-fold doors need vac u form'n.

 

I wish I had access to good 1/48 decals here in OZ as I was think'n of doo-n an Aussie Halifax MkIII...

 

Best of luck.

 

Phil.

 

 

Edited by LongMan2
more info...

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Ah finally!

 

Good to see you starting this Neil, and you have made some great progress already.

 

Don't mind if I tag along and follow this thread? Would make a nice template for my own FM Halifax (which is stalled at the moment due to the 1/32  Manchester).

Regarding the wings, they really need to have strong spars to keep everything true.

 

Keep it up.


Cheers

Cees

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9 hours ago, LongMan2 said:

Hi  Mr Woody37

 

What I've found is the best reference book is the Haynes book on the Halifax, it seems to have the best reference material all gathered in one place.

 

As far as the rear turret goes...because of the dimension problems with the rear of the FM Halifax's the vac-u-form clear turret is dimensionally off (yet its with all their vac clear parts). Its under sized somewhat in width and length. But if it doesn't worry you just rock on. I wish there was a replacement kit for the turret out there but there is not. I believe some Greek guy did a MkII in 1/48 and he may have a WIP construction photo/drawing (before paint) of that turret...it may help. A balsa or card master is a good start just for getting the dimensions right...At looking at my fuselage it looks a little fat scaled up from my Revell 1/72 kit....so check the width before you glue it together. Once you start it.. it all starts moving quickly.

 

I talked about the new Revell Beaufighter 1/48 engines they are really terrible (shame Mr Revell) except you might be ale to play around with them by cross fitt'n with some Tamiya engine parts. That inside engine which powers the APU has the exhaust on the opposite side to the other three...so because of the breakdown of the Revell engines it might make it possible. I do like the rear of the Revell Beau engine and the flared cooling gills...which many Halifax are seen with. I think Tamiya Beaufighter hubs is a start for the props...I got Roy to cast some few parts from masters I made but he may have thrown out the silicon molds. I believe as far as the porcupine flame dampers go...MDC did some for their DB-7/Boston night fighter conversion in 1/48. Not sure of their accuracy but its just a suggestion to get over that hump. Again you would need 4x of them...and a resin cast. 

 

The Tamiya Lancaster could provide you with better seats and I believe there are 1/48 resin radios etc from cutting edge....and a lost-wax-brass Lewis gun. A cleaned up Beaufighter control stick and rudder pedals could be used? The Norden bomb sight is a whole other issue in 1/48 and because of that big clear nose I know of no other resource for one. The new 1/48 HK B-17 possibly...

 

Not sure about this one....but I think 1/72 Beaufighter activation arms for the elevators could be used for the elevator trim tabs for the Halifax MkIII?

 

The bomb bays (wings and fuselage) is a whole other issue and would require scratch-building to get it right. Shame Eduard couldn't enlarge their 1/72 sets to 1/48 for the Revell 1/72 BIII...but that is only thinking allowed. The bi-fold doors need vac u form'n.

 

I wish I had access to good 1/48 decals here in OZ as I was think'n of doo-n an Aussie Halifax MkIII...

 

Best of luck.

 

Phil.

 

 

I need to do some further studying yet but the bomb bay looks to be doable, just lots of fiddly parts to make. I've cut the wing bomb bays out, mainly as it gives me access to sort out the spar arrangement but in doing so, i'll detail them as well. The bit that threw me last night is the angle of the wings where they butt against the fuselage, they aren't at 90 degrees to the wing, rather they cause the wing to angle down. Is this the same on yours? I need to measure the gap to see whether the top or lower wing is more correct (gap to inboard engine) and from this, I will either cut the top part away to square it off or add more plastic to the lower half. The spar box section in the fuselage is looking rather industrial at the moment but as this won't be visible once together, i'm not too worried. 

 

If I can, I will use the rear turret that comes with the kit but failing that, will make a new one, just trying to keep the workload down! 

 

I've not really digested the engines yet, my initial thoughts are just to detail what comes with the kit and perhaps open the apertures a bit. I'm not wanting to buy two Beaufighter kits unless I convert one of them in to a Mk.II but suppose it is an option. 

44 minutes ago, Cees Broere said:

Ah finally!

 

Good to see you starting this Neil, and you have made some great progress already.

 

Don't mind if I tag along and follow this thread? Would make a nice template for my own FM Halifax (which is stalled at the moment due to the 1/32  Manchester).

Regarding the wings, they really need to have strong spars to keep everything true.

 

Keep it up.


Cheers

Cees

Hi Cees, more than welcome and the Manchester is a perfectly reasonable excuse to be stalled on your Halifax! Wondering if you've had the same issue on the wing angle caused by the butt face?

 

Thanks

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Build looks great so far. I recently saw the Halifax at Hendon, albeit as wreckage. It's a very nice aircraft, can't wait to see this finished

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14 minutes ago, woody37 said:

. The bit that threw me last night is the angle of the wings where they butt against the fuselage, they aren't at 90 degrees to the wing, rather they cause the wing to angle down. Is this the same on yours? I need to measure the gap to see whether the top or lower wing is more correct (gap to inboard engine) and from this, I will either cut the top part away to square it off or add more plastic to the lower half.

Yes, I found this problem. My upper halves were square, but the lower halves were angled at the butt joint (ooer missus). You need to build up the wing to make a square joint. I used plastic card to pack the lower half.

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1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Yes, I found this problem. My upper halves were square, but the lower halves were angled at the butt joint (ooer missus). You need to build up the wing to make a square joint. I used plastic card to pack the lower half.

Thanks. I reckon it will need about 2mm at the bottom so there's a lot of sanding to do afterwards to get it square!

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In my kit the ends of the wings (that are supposed to butt against the fuselage sides) had splayed out ruling out a nice glueing surface or square joint. I cut away these sections so the wing roots are fully open and intend to have some thin plasticard sections fitted over the spars to serve as a ledge to slide the wings over and also

ensure there is plenty of glueing surface. Apart from that it was difficult to get the wings to conform to the aerofoil shape on the fuselage. In theory my solutions also ensures that the wings conform to the fuselage (that's the theory sofar).

As the kit is, the fuselage/wingroots are too thin and wobbly to ensure a firm connection (without strenghtening). I hope this makes sense.

Cees

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6 hours ago, Cees Broere said:

In my kit the ends of the wings (that are supposed to butt against the fuselage sides) had splayed out ruling out a nice glueing surface or square joint. I cut away these sections so the wing roots are fully open and intend to have some thin plasticard sections fitted over the spars to serve as a ledge to slide the wings over and also

ensure there is plenty of glueing surface. Apart from that it was difficult to get the wings to conform to the aerofoil shape on the fuselage. In theory my solutions also ensures that the wings conform to the fuselage (that's the theory sofar).

As the kit is, the fuselage/wingroots are too thin and wobbly to ensure a firm connection (without strenghtening). I hope this makes sense.

Cees

Hi Cees, mine feel pretty rigid, however rather than remove the butt area, I'm going to build it up, I reckon the lower part needs a good 2mm. I may simply do this with car filler yet, not decided. With this bit of the kit being a key area, I ploughed on tonight and it seems to of gone rather smoothly...famous last words! Having cut out the wing bomb bays, there was room to faff around in there. I glued some packing strips to the top and bottom surfaces and it's made for a snug fit of the spars and everything looks pretty good.

 

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Once the bomb bay interior has been added, it will help to provide a secure location for the spars on final fitment

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The rear profile is looking better now

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As the fuselage halves don't have location pins, I've added plastic strips down one half to improve the joins

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I am watching and saving every detail!  I have been staring with horror at the Fonderie Miniature 1/48 Halifax for several years, and I hope to use your progress to motivate myself!  Looking good, so far.

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3 minutes ago, Tail-Dragon said:

I am watching and saving every detail!  I have been staring with horror at the Fonderie Miniature 1/48 Halifax for several years, and I hope to use your progress to motivate myself!  Looking good, so far.

Lol, they can have that effect. I'm using a positive mental attitude to get through this one, every timer I make a step forwards, I reward myself with a chocolate bar 😂  Not sure that's a good thing though!

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2 minutes ago, woody37 said:

Lol, they can have that effect. I'm using a positive mental attitude to get through this one, every timer I make a step forwards, I reward myself with a chocolate bar 😂  Not sure that's a good thing though!

I use Whiskey, but it does seem to limit progress!

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I have discovered the assembled cowlings are too small for the nacelle fronts. Out with the wet'n'dry to reduce the nacelle fronts. The resin engines are also a snug fit, so the heads will get the file treatment. I'm determined to have this on the table at Telford this year. It should be sunny tomorrow, so a coat of primer is going on.....then I will see the rest of the faults. 17 days should do it.

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Hi Woody37,

 

Indeed the fuselage your working with is way better than mine. As we know the reason for the poor quality of the molding is simply FM staff pulled the plastic runners out when hot and deformed when cooling. Every joint needs to be double checked to ensure fit (Square and true) so it makes it a long tough build. For that matter each component clean-up is time consuming and sometimes frustrating so test fitting is essential. The main spar assembly is critical for strength and its key is to ensure when fitted for the proper width for the wing bays and depth for the main bomb bay. Also one needs to build up the sunken wing form in each fuselage half to allow for a curtain blanket of card for the side wall of the bomb bay. The Halifax truss web spar arrangement is visible at every wing opening. I intend to get the top wing aligned and square (including the correct width for span) before attaching bottom wing, spar, and bomb/wheel well boxes. It appears some kits are better than others...when it comes to this FM Halifax. 

 

The colours for the FM decals is simply off...as we know. There are other aftermarket companies that produce 1/48 Halifax decals but I have no idea of their quality.

 

I have early pictures on my Photobucket page but they are locked and wouldn't help with your build. Your working with someone else's build and doing your own thing...and I don't wana seem to hijack your thread. 

 

Your doing well...keep going.

 

PHIL.

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Neil,

Are you going to fit the flap shrouds? I had a lot of trouble fitting them evenly, but they will be essention giving the trailing edge of the wings more strength.
Cees

Edited by Cees Broere

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Hi Woody37,

 

You asked, "The bit that threw me last night is the angle of the wings where they butt against the fuselage, they aren't at 90 degrees to the wing, rather they cause the wing to angle down. Is this the same on yours?" The answer is "No" if I might explain, the wings on the FM Halifax are short in span coupled with the thin fuselage plastic walls it makes it tough to get alignment true and straight. I used a machinist square to get 90 at that critical joint. The 2x 80thou spacers and the internal 1x 80thou filler makes for a strong even base to align the wings. Yes the bomb bay is critical to provide support to the whole aircraft so spend some time on getting it right and true. Too thin a width bomb bay and you will get an alignment problem with the main wings because of the thin FM plastic in that area.

 

What I'm having a problem with is the rear fuselage is twisting because again of the very thin plastic FM used coupled with their poor care when pulling the molds and letting them cool.  I will have to make a gig to support and clap down holding the aircraft straight and aligned when I'm ready. 

 

Not to confuse people with two builds here ...I posted just 3 image of my build on Hyperscale as a WIP in "Plastic pic's" to help those whom wish to take on the beast.

 

PHIL.

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4 hours ago, Cees Broere said:

Neil,

Are you going to fit the flap shrouds? I had a lot of trouble fitting them evenly, but they will be essention giving the trailing edge of the wings more strength.
Cees

I dry 'fitted' them, and discarded the idea. However you angle the flaps, they will fit without the shrouds.

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On 10/21/2019 at 9:53 PM, bentwaters81tfw said:

I have discovered the assembled cowlings are too small for the nacelle fronts. Out with the wet'n'dry to reduce the nacelle fronts. The resin engines are also a snug fit, so the heads will get the file treatment. I'm determined to have this on the table at Telford this year. It should be sunny tomorrow, so a coat of primer is going on.....then I will see the rest of the faults. 17 days should do it.

Looking forwards to seeing it if you can get it there. What display are you on?

8 hours ago, Cees Broere said:

Neil,

Are you going to fit the flap shrouds? I had a lot of trouble fitting them evenly, but they will be essention giving the trailing edge of the wings more strength.
Cees

Hi Cees, what do you mean by flap shrouds? I’ve filled the trailing edge gap behind the flap location with some card to strengthen the wing.

4 hours ago, LongMan2 said:

Hi Woody37,

 

You asked, "The bit that threw me last night is the angle of the wings where they butt against the fuselage, they aren't at 90 degrees to the wing, rather they cause the wing to angle down. Is this the same on yours?" The answer is "No" if I might explain, the wings on the FM Halifax are short in span coupled with the thin fuselage plastic walls it makes it tough to get alignment true and straight. I used a machinist square to get 90 at that critical joint. The 2x 80thou spacers and the internal 1x 80thou filler makes for a strong even base to align the wings. Yes the bomb bay is critical to provide support to the whole aircraft so spend some time on getting it right and true. Too thin a width bomb bay and you will get an alignment problem with the main wings because of the thin FM plastic in that area.

 

What I'm having a problem with is the rear fuselage is twisting because again of the very thin plastic FM used coupled with their poor care when pulling the molds and letting them cool.  I will have to make a gig to support and clap down holding the aircraft straight and aligned when I'm ready. 

 

Not to confuse people with two builds here ...I posted just 3 image of my build on Hyperscale as a WIP in "Plastic pic's" to help those whom wish to take on the beast.

 

PHIL.

Hi Phil, I’ve got the wings pretty much square now, I’ll pop some photos up later. The intention is to fit some reinforcement beams either side of each spar to improve rigidity but a dry fit so far looks ok without. I’ll venture over to hyperscale and have a look but feel free to post here too, I'm not precious about pics just being of my build. I’m not looking for perfection so as long as I can keep the wings square ish, ill be happy :)

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On 10/17/2019 at 5:51 PM, woody37 said:

Been a bit sparse around here this year, partly modellers block after completing the Sanger Stirling, partly as I've been busy with other stuff but just finished the Airfix 1/48 Blenheim and ready to get stuck in to something a bit more challenging. Last year, @crobinsonh kindly gave me an FM Halifax (thanks Colin :) ) that he'd started and it's a kit I've wanted to build for a while....well I tell a lie, it's the aircraft I've wanted to build and this is the best way of doing it! Colin has done some great work on it already so it's taken some of the sting out and the fuselage halves look to be pretty aligned too so I'm going to be brave and say that assembly looks pretty straight forwards from here 😬. I always find a way to stuff something up however! I'm currently thinking about the clear parts and the possibility of moulding some new ones but will do more thinking about that before jumping in feet first. 

 

So the aircraft in mind....some time ago I got talking to a chap called Michel Darribehaude (can't remember if you're on here Mike but if you are, pop by and say hello and feel free to expand on the story :) ) and his father Sergent-Chef. Christian Bernard Darribehaude was a wireless operator on this aircraft from Dec 1944. From my research I believe the aircraft was manufactured by London Transport in Nov 44.  It received flak damage both on the 24th and 26th Dec resulting in emergency landings at Carnaby and all crew survived the war but I know little more than that. Inspired by conversations with Mike and trips to Elvington, the choice was quite easy to make. I've not come across any photo's of this aircraft so if anyone has come across one, I'd love to see it/them.

 

First steps will be to continue work on the interior as per usual and figuring out the rest as I navigate my way through the parts. Having seen a few of these beasts built at the various shows, it's quite an imposing aircraft once finished. 

 

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Hi Neil,

 

Good to see you back in the saddle. Quite a project to make a triumphant return with!

 

I made a start on this a couple of years back and had loads of research and resources at the ready after doing my 1/32nd version. Sad to say it’s one of the few kits that’s ever defeated me.
 

My kit was horrendous - terribly warped and lots of short moulding. I actually got to the point of considering using a Sanger/Contrail fuselage instead of the Fonderie one - to cut a long story short I lost interest. 

 

However, seeing you take this on has got something stirring within me - I may well go and have a rummage on the stash later and cast some fresh eyes over the brute!
 

I’m looking forward to further progress!

 

Tom

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On 10/17/2019 at 6:39 PM, bentwaters81tfw said:

Doing one of these right now. DO NOT assemble the interior then try to fit it. It won't.

Cut it into pieces and file the hell out of it, and test fit again and again before gluing any of it to the inside of the fuselage.

When I first got mine, SAMI did an article about how to build the kit and written by the guy who made the masters for the model. 

I can cover from that, you need to sand and test fit to get a good result. I admit I replaced the engines and poly transparencies using a CD case for the larger ones and clear fix for the portholes.

 

It isn't the easiest kit, but it can be made into a decent model with effort. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tomprobert said:

Hi Neil,

 

Good to see you back in the saddle. Quite a project to make a triumphant return with!

 

I made a start on this a couple of years back and had loads of research and resources at the ready after doing my 1/32nd version. Sad to say it’s one of the few kits that’s ever defeated me.
 

My kit was horrendous - terribly warped and lots of short moulding. I actually got to the point of considering using a Sanger/Contrail fuselage instead of the Fonderie one - to cut a long story short I lost interest. 

 

However, seeing you take this on has got something stirring within me - I may well go and have a rummage on the stash later and cast some fresh eyes over the brute!
 

I’m looking forward to further progress!

 

Tom

Hi Tom,

 

If it beat you, it must of been a bad copy. I don't know what condition the wings are in as Colin has dealt with them, but the fuselage isn't too bad at all. Your 1/32 build was a great inspiration for any Halifax fan. Where did you get up to with the Stirling and Shack?

 

1 hour ago, Radpoe Spitfire said:

When I first got mine, SAMI did an article about how to build the kit and written by the guy who made the masters for the model. 

I can cover from that, you need to sand and test fit to get a good result. I admit I replaced the engines and poly transparencies using a CD case for the larger ones and clear fix for the portholes.

 

It isn't the easiest kit, but it can be made into a decent model with effort. 

 

 

Thanks, I'm tempted to change the engines and may do the same for the front windows, I'll probably do the small round ones with liquid stuff for easy.

 

This is how the wings look after lining the wings to get a good snug fit. I'm intending to secure the spars to the bomb bay floor to improve rigidity but lots of dry fitting and measuring will happen before then. you can see that the front of the fuselage is slightly warped but the rest is pretty straight. 

 

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Before you close the fuselage up, you might want to make 2 large tabs of clear acetate to place under the roof escape hatches, so you don't drop the final glazing into the void. Likewise the inside of the bomb aimer's window, but you can get to that through the nose afterwards.

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