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woody37

1/48 Halifax 346 Sqn PN365 (H7-B)

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Been a bit sparse around here this year, partly modellers block after completing the Sanger Stirling, partly as I've been busy with other stuff but just finished the Airfix 1/48 Blenheim and ready to get stuck in to something a bit more challenging. Last year, @crobinsonh kindly gave me an FM Halifax (thanks Colin :) ) that he'd started and it's a kit I've wanted to build for a while....well I tell a lie, it's the aircraft I've wanted to build and this is the best way of doing it! Colin has done some great work on it already so it's taken some of the sting out and the fuselage halves look to be pretty aligned too so I'm going to be brave and say that assembly looks pretty straight forwards from here 😬. I always find a way to stuff something up however! I'm currently thinking about the clear parts and the possibility of moulding some new ones but will do more thinking about that before jumping in feet first. 

 

So the aircraft in mind....some time ago I got talking to a chap called Michel Darribehaude (can't remember if you're on here Mike but if you are, pop by and say hello and feel free to expand on the story :) ) and his father Sergent-Chef. Christian Bernard Darribehaude was a wireless operator on this aircraft from Dec 1944. From my research I believe the aircraft was manufactured by London Transport in Nov 44.  It received flak damage both on the 24th and 26th Dec resulting in emergency landings at Carnaby and all crew survived the war but I know little more than that. Inspired by conversations with Mike and trips to Elvington, the choice was quite easy to make. I've not come across any photo's of this aircraft so if anyone has come across one, I'd love to see it/them.

 

First steps will be to continue work on the interior as per usual and figuring out the rest as I navigate my way through the parts. Having seen a few of these beasts built at the various shows, it's quite an imposing aircraft once finished. 

 

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Doing one of these right now. DO NOT assemble the interior then try to fit it. It won't.

Cut it into pieces and file the hell out of it, and test fit again and again before gluing any of it to the inside of the fuselage.

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I'm in on this one. You always make great planes with interesting threads.

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One of my favourite aircraft, I had 2 FM kits but after looking at the box contents I sold them on, so it will be nice watching how I should have built them.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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No disrespect to Colin, but after some warnings and seeing one particular example, I would not (and did not) build it that way. It is very easy to get sag and lose the dihedral, making it look like a big Stuka. Having mastered the fuselage, ( I started it after Telford last year and only closed it up last weekend) I superglued the spars in place, having used the fuselage side as a template, made up 4 ribs from laminated plastic sheet. These were spaced over the spars, then test fitted and cut down to ensure support, then I fitted the top halves of the wings. Once hardened (superglued), I test fitted the lower wings, and attached them to the uppers, noting the outer spar contacted the lower surface, so this was superglued through the hole in the wing under side. Where the lower wing half meets the fuselage is a large gap, which would also allow the wing to sag. This has also been packed with plastic strip and superglue. No way will it sag/droop now. 

Something you will need is a selection of files. every part needs dressing before they will fit.

 

Another point to watch is the rear fuselage is too narrow to accept the rear turret, it will need spacing.

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3 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Doing one of these right now. DO NOT assemble the interior then try to fit it. It won't.

Cut it into pieces and file the hell out of it, and test fit again and again before gluing any of it to the inside of the fuselage.

There will be lots of dry fitting along the way :)

3 hours ago, Greg Law said:

I'm in on this one. You always make great planes with interesting threads.

Thanks Greg, feeling the pressure now 😂

3 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

No disrespect to Colin, but after some warnings and seeing one particular example, I would not (and did not) build it that way. It is very easy to get sag and lose the dihedral, making it look like a big Stuka. Having mastered the fuselage, ( I started it after Telford last year and only closed it up last weekend) I superglued the spars in place, having used the fuselage side as a template, made up 4 ribs from laminated plastic sheet. These were spaced over the spars, then test fitted and cut down to ensure support, then I fitted the top halves of the wings. Once hardened (superglued), I test fitted the lower wings, and attached them to the uppers, noting the outer spar contacted the lower surface, so this was superglued through the hole in the wing under side. Where the lower wing half meets the fuselage is a large gap, which would also allow the wing to sag. This has also been packed with plastic strip and superglue. No way will it sag/droop now. 

Something you will need is a selection of files. every part needs dressing before they will fit.

 

Another point to watch is the rear fuselage is too narrow to accept the rear turret, it will need spacing.

Thanks for the tips, There'll be doing more studying on the spar section to figure out which way to go in due course. I'll make the rear end correct size from drawings and form a new rear turret most probably so not too worried about the current width. Having battled with the Stirling, it's a far better starting point.

 

Cheers

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G'day Mr Woody37,

 

Yeah your gonna be in for a ride with this one. I suggest looking for my posts on here for the FM Halifax and it will make things clearer...somewhat. To put it plane and simple the kit is a mess but you get what you get with a FM kit. I have the MAP plans in 1/48 scale and it is clear the people at FM didn't know what they were doing when they cast this kit in plastic. Lots wrong but it is a starting point to something special if you are willing to persist.

 

 

The whole kit is under sized down the length of the fuselage and the wings short in span. 

 

I made the mistake of using the UK based Halifax as a starting point ...and its crystal clear that was a big mistake. The only true Halifax is the rebuild in Canada... SO any reference material/photos/drawings to the UK based Halifax/Hastings/JTTM should be discarded.

 

The engines are a big problem as the FM kits are simply not round at least in my sample. I would use the new 1/48 Revell Beaufighter engines (with some mods) as the Tamiya ones are just to difficult to attach and get the exhaust right for a Halifax. 

 

I put mine on hold until I can afford 2x Revell Beaufighter kits...as they are well over $100 AUD each where I am. I made a posting on Hyperscale with my engine mount design for the Tamiya Herc engines if that is any help to you.

 

FM plastic is horrible, brittle and has multi thicknesses...

 

The clear parts need replacing or vac your own as their shape is way off...

 

Unless you are trying to prove something and have lots of time I would bin the FM plastic mess. Maybe HK might do one in 1/48...but then one would be playing a waiting game.

 

Good luck!

 

PHIL.

Edited by LongMan2

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I’m not going to aim for complete accuracy, whilst I’ll get the tail end the right width, the wings and fuselage will be staying largely the shape they are. I could spend a few extra months modifying things and yet sat on a display table, the extra effort will be mostly unnoticeable. Certainly won’t be binning it, I've seen several built up nicely and there won’t be scale drawings lying around to compare it against on the BC sig table...I hope!!

 

cheers

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G'ady Woody,

 

Just wanted to put you in the picture Mr. Woody. I like your attitude it needs to be commended. "I'm not going to aim for complete accuracy" are good words, simply because I believe every kit we build leads to more skills and knowledge. So I believe one can't be wrong with what ever one does build. I find there are too many who walk around tables and say to their friends I don't like that colour of the nose radio antenna or the shape of the propellers...just for their own self indulgence that they weren't the first to build that kit and finish it.

 

I might see if I can get hold of some Revell Beaufighter engines here in the land of OZ...but seriously the wizards price of that kit is just to disturbing to trash it just for the engines.

 

I'm not sure if there are parts from other kits that could be used...such as the turrets, wheels, and exhausts...maybe some one here could help out with that. 

 

Yeah that wing spar is key...many larger kits of mine split at that top fuselage join line because of the moving around and just its self weight putting pressure on the plastic. I'm sure there is gonna be a pile of plastic on your table after this one. 

 

Onward to the light....lol!

 

Phil

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, LongMan2 said:

G'ady Woody,

 

Just wanted to put you in the picture Mr. Woody. I like your attitude it needs to be commended. "I'm not going to aim for complete accuracy" are good words, simply because I believe every kit we build leads to more skills and knowledge. So I believe one can't be wrong with what ever one does build. I find there are too many who walk around tables and say to their friends I don't like that colour of the nose radio antenna or the shape of the propellers...just for their own self indulgence that they weren't the first to build that kit and finish it.

 

I might see if I can get hold of some Revell Beaufighter engines here in the land of OZ...but seriously the wizards price of that kit is just to disturbing to trash it just for the engines.

 

I'm not sure if there are parts from other kits that could be used...such as the turrets, wheels, and exhausts...maybe some one here could help out with that. 

 

Yeah that wing spar is key...many larger kits of mine split at that top fuselage join line because of the moving around and just its self weight putting pressure on the plastic. I'm sure there is gonna be a pile of plastic on your table after this one. 

 

Onward to the light....lol!

 

Phil

 

 

 

Hi Phil,

 

Trying to get a kit mega accurate can become an obsessive goal and for me personally can take the fun out of it if not too careful, so my approach is one of sanity! Sounds like a good plan on the Beau engines, perhaps someone can create a few resin copies for you? 

 

Looking at what Colin has already done, the undercarriage looks fine as it is so will be using them. The clear part for the rear turret looks OK too but need to see how it looks in situ before making any choices on that. My thoughts on the spar are to line the inner wing with plasticard so that the kit spars fit snug. To do this, I'll have to open up the holes in the wings for access. Alternatively, I was thinking of using expandable hard curing foam or balsa wood and using aluminium dowell to feed in to drilled holes but there's time for more thinking as I crack on with the interior. 

 

I've had a more closer look at the work Colin has done and he's done a cracking job on the interior parts so far so there's very little to do here. I'm going to make my own bomb bay floor using photo's of the WEM set I've got as a guide so will be attaching this to one half of the fuselage in the near future and building around this as a starting point. 

 

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I've attached a pice of plasticard to the top of the bomb bay floor to keep the angle that's present on the Halibag design, this won't be seen once everything is stitched up. Come to think of it, I might take it off once it's glued in on one side. 

 

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I forgot about the one I did several years ago on the old Airfix kit but this was scratch built and intend to do the same thing, just in bigger scale:

 

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Can't believe I had the patience to cut all them bits out individually, dreading doing that again!!

 

Cheers

Neil

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Surely one to watch . . . .

 

I am with you Woody about the overall appearance and fine detail.

It can become obsessive and although one can add a lot of detail, I too wouldn't be too concerned with the minute dimensional errors.

 

I intend to build the HK Lancaster soon and virtually ever section of the build has errors, I intend to make those errors correct, its about personal choice.

 

Looking forward to seeing regular updates . . . . .

Ian

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Watch the thickness of the bomb bay roof, as it is flush with the bottom of the spars. You will need it rigid - although the plastic is hard, the fuselage sides will bow inwards. Now fitting the engine nacelles and gear bays, (The wings are already firmly attached) I have discovered the front spar protrudes into the spaces required for the gear bays. It has been duly shortened both sides, and the openings enlarged accordingly. I closed my bomb bay up. After all the cursing and frustration you will get with the main build, you won't want to detail it.

 

My kit came with an extra set of white metal engines, props and exhausts. (Looks like a white metal set for a pair of Beaus, as the u/c parts look familiar).

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Hi Woody, What you have done so far is already quite impressive, to say the least!

It's great to know you're modelling one of the Halifaxes my w/op dad flew in. I've no photos either of the crew together or the aircraft itself, and there was no fancy nose art on this one or any other they used 😕 - it would seem the skipper wasn't the fun-loving sort. He also refused to have another photo session when the only picture of the complete crew turned out to be blurry. BUT at least he was an excellent pilot and saved my dad's life + the lives of the other crew members of course on at least 2 occasions (in North Africa + on D-Day). 

I'll be back with more information on PN365 and the crew if this is of any interest to you and other modellers here. But I'll be using my laptop instead of my tiny smartphone ! 😉 Cheers!

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3 hours ago, Mancunian airman said:

Surely one to watch . . . .

 

I am with you Woody about the overall appearance and fine detail.

It can become obsessive and although one can add a lot of detail, I too wouldn't be too concerned with the minute dimensional errors.

 

I intend to build the HK Lancaster soon and virtually ever section of the build has errors, I intend to make those errors correct, its about personal choice.

 

Looking forward to seeing regular updates . . . . .

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

Having seen a HK Lanc built up, I'm sure you will be pleased with it. I'm looking forwards to watching your build too so do hope you share your progress with us :)

3 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Watch the thickness of the bomb bay roof, as it is flush with the bottom of the spars. You will need it rigid - although the plastic is hard, the fuselage sides will bow inwards. Now fitting the engine nacelles and gear bays, (The wings are already firmly attached) I have discovered the front spar protrudes into the spaces required for the gear bays. It has been duly shortened both sides, and the openings enlarged accordingly. I closed my bomb bay up. After all the cursing and frustration you will get with the main build, you won't want to detail it.

 

My kit came with an extra set of white metal engines, props and exhausts. (Looks like a white metal set for a pair of Beaus, as the u/c parts look familiar).

Thanks, thew rear spar is flush with the top of the bay, I've used 80 thou card. I'm thinking of building some inner strengtheners to beef up the centre section as I can see it will be rather flimsy and hard to align other wise. The bay is now glued in to one side as is the rear gear bay. I quite enjoy these industrial phases of the build

1 hour ago, GimmeAnF said:

Hi Woody, What you have done so far is already quite impressive, to say the least!

It's great to know you're modelling one of the Halifaxes my w/op dad flew in. I've no photos either of the crew together or the aircraft itself, and there was no fancy nose art on this one or any other they used 😕 - it would seem the skipper wasn't the fun-loving sort. He also refused to have another photo session when the only picture of the complete crew turned out to be blurry. BUT at least he was an excellent pilot and saved my dad's life + the lives of the other crew members of course on at least 2 occasions (in North Africa + on D-Day). 

I'll be back with more information on PN365 and the crew if this is of any interest to you and other modellers here. But I'll be using my laptop instead of my tiny smartphone ! 😉 Cheers!

Hi Mike,

 

Great to see you here, please share as much as you care to, the more the merrier! Perhaps the pilot thought a photo would be a curse? I'm not aware of the North Africa element so look forwards to hearing about that too :)

 

I'm sure I remember you telling the story of an engine fire on take off on D-Day?

 

Thanks

Neil

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Hi Neil,

Great to see you back at the modelling bench again! Looking forward to watching this progress.

Will it be ready for Telford do you think?:bleh:

Cheers,

Ian

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11 hours ago, Turbofan said:

Hi Neil,

Great to see you back at the modelling bench again! Looking forward to watching this progress.

Will it be ready for Telford do you think?:bleh:

Cheers,

Ian

He'll get it ready in time for Telford, which year is the real question 😜

 

rgds

John(shortCummins)

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Looking forward to this one Neil,.... I was hoping that you`d go for it after our chat when you visited mate. Colin has certainly got you off to a great start,..... and I`m sure you`ll create a beauty....... I`ll sort out some reference pics of the Canadian Halibag from my recent visit. 

Good luck pal,

                       Tony

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Hiya Neil,..... I have a French language book about the French Halifax`s with lots of previously unpublished photos,..... I shall dig it out and have a look through it for your intended aircraft. As promised,.... here are some pics of the Canadian Halibag,...... remember it is an Airborne Forces version, so it has had the mid upper turret removed and it has a `joe hole' parachute exit in the belly. The exhaust locations may also be different for your aircraft and I think that the propeller blades on the Canadian Halibag look a bit suspect and paddle shaped,.... especially at the roots,...... I believe that most, if not all are wooden replacements? This shape made its way into the Revell 1/72nd B.III kit unfortunately;

 

DSCF6521-NEW.jpg

DSCF6512-NEW.jpg

DSCF6506-NEW.jpg

 DSCF6447.jpg

DSCF6512-NEW.jpg

DSCF6501.jpg

DSCF6507.jpg

DSCF6509.jpg

DSCF6517-NEW.jpg

DSCF6525-NEW.jpg

DSCF6529.jpg

DSCF6449-NEW.jpg

DSCF6450-NEW.jpg

DSCF6455-NEW.jpg

DSCF6454.jpg

DSCF6459-NEW.jpg

DSCF6461.jpg

 

So there you go,..... not a builders hat or length of drainpipe in sight, the cooling gills are real, as are the exhaust rings and the propeller blade are correctly aligned!! 

 

Hope these are of use,.... cheers,

                                                  Tony

Edited by tonyot

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Some pics to be going on with,...... this code was hard to make out,.....could be a B?

photo-218801-3909872-201004085457909.jpg

 

And a later,....replacement,.... H7-B;

44593691-537958606666650-682953078703810

44716194-537958773333300-357086529484488

 

I`ll dig out the book today,

 

Cheers,

           Tony

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Hiya Neil,...... a few more pics mate;

 

I thought I had found a pic of H7-B`s crash landing,..... but this is H7-P!!

81676004-o.jpg

 

Although this `could' be your H7-B@

80217846-p.jpg

 

Some bomb bay pics;

04-Halifax-Bomb-Bay.jpg

22519494-10155907484664319-5074855184082 

22552836-10155907484639319-8566510829653

9b84e8466824a796e8348c62ce52a399.jpg

 

Some showing the prop shape etc;

46745466-p.jpg

743211.jpg

77-sqn-halifax.jpg

halifax-2-heavy-gts.jpg

22730258-10155907484524319-1995783070129

 

The nose shape;

english-electric-strand-factory-630.jpg

 

Tail Turret'

78-squadron-halifax-rear-gunner-position

Tail-Turrent.jpg

 

And a production plan!

1463499-10153857605577049-17289462487172

 

All the best mate

                          Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Turbofan said:

Hi Neil,

Great to see you back at the modelling bench again! Looking forward to watching this progress.

Will it be ready for Telford do you think?:bleh:

Cheers,

Ian

Ha ha, it will be there 2020 though :)

 

Really enjoying being back at the bench Ian, sometimes you just need a break :)

2 hours ago, shortCummins said:

He'll get it ready in time for Telford, which year is the real question 😜

 

rgds

John(shortCummins)

I reckon it will be finished early next year. As daunting as it is, having built the Sanger Stirling before hand, it's given me a reference to work against and the work involved in this is far less. The biggest unknown at the moment is what to do about transparencies, do I make my own or try to use what is in the kit?

51 minutes ago, tonyot said:

Looking forward to this one Neil,.... I was hoping that you`d go for it after our chat when you visited mate. Colin has certainly got you off to a great start,..... and I`m sure you`ll create a beauty....... I`ll sort out some reference pics of the Canadian Halibag from my recent visit. 

Good luck pal,

                       Tony

Have to say mate, having visited your display arena...I mean house and met all your little production elves, I came away hugely inspired! Wow, thanks for your photo's, those close ups really help with the detailing plans you're a star :) I've only just noticed that the Trenton Halibag doesn't have a mid upper! What a beautiful restoration they've done 😍

I wonder if Mike can indicate what happened to PN365 for this aircraft in the B&W photo's to have replaced it in 346 Sqn? 

 

Tony, would you know whether the codes would be dark red or bright red? They look a slightly different shade in the B&W photo's to the red in the roundel. I need to get hold of or create some codes but as they have yellow surrounds, I can't see any in 1/48 ont internet to buy. any ideas?

 

Although I don't plan on major surgery, one area that I'm not happy to leave is the way the rear fuselage meets the turret. As it is, the turret looks a bit elongated vertically, but this can be sorted with a base to pull it out a bit, but the upper shroud sits too high. I was going to cut it all out and make a new fairing, but I've found that cutting a V wedge piece out allows it to be reshaped in a more accurate way so this is the plan of action. Tony's photo helps perfectly with this.

 

The kit shape:

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The revised shape:

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The fuselage, I know some have major warps, but this looks like a good one. You can see I've opened the rear end to match the turret better so plasticard will be used to make this permanent when we get to that stage. 

spacer.png

 

Thanks

Neil

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4 minutes ago, tonyot said:

Hiya Neil,...... a few more pics mate;

 

 

Although this `could' be your H7-B@

80217846-p.jpg

 

Fantastic pics mate, really appreciate them. Be great if this is the aircraft, I wonder if this is Mikes fathers crew if so, hopefully he can confirm? He seems to think that they only got one photo that was blurred so probably not, but you never know.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, woody37 said:

 

Hiya Mate,.... be nice if it was the correct aircraft,.....hopefully I`ll know more when I have a look through the book?

 

Re the codes,...... I personally think that the codes should be dull red,... as per RAF specs,.... with yellow outlines,....... and the converted/reversed French markings more than often appear to be applied in lighter,.. brighter colours than the RAF ones. In the kit decals,.... see below,.... they appear to have chosen the same red. They also replicate the same French Halifax that I built in 1/48th;

 

 fm-halifax-decal1-1.jpg

 

The only 1/48th Bomber sized codes that I`m aware of are from Xtradecal in Dull Red,.... you`d have to add your own yellow outline.

 

Great idea re the tail turret,..... will you be mounting the glaing on a base,..... because this will raise it slightly too?

 

All the best and good luck matey, glad you enjoyed the visit and meeting the elves LOL,

Cheers

           Tony

 

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Thanks, I suspected the codes would be the same as RAF, I have that sheet in the kit and wasn't sure if its correct. Doing the yellow will be  right pain. I may over paint the existing H7 ones so it's just the 'B' to worry about unless there's one in another decal set but I've not been able to see one. I might create a masking template using a stock decal as a template, probably easier than painting free hand.

 

I was planning to put the base inside the glazing, partly to widen it a bit so it doesn't look elongated, partly to keep the height. Lots of planning to do yet!

 

Cheers

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Hiya Neil,...... I`ve had a look through the book,...... found a couple of photos and info;

 

- MZ737 H7-B which is an early B.III, there is a plan view photo depicting squared off wing tips. .... ex 158 Sqn, dates for sorties that I could find with 346 Sqn are-  14 July 44, 6 Oct 44, 9 Oct 44, 5 Dec 44. It wore the codes B, V & G and was  recorded as Stroke in French,... which I presume is Written Off or Lost in Action?

 

-RG646- H7-B another B.III, there is a photo of the crew stood in front of the nose, showing nose artwork of a duck with a club inside a circle, plus there is a colour side view drawing. I found a crew listing for a sortie in April 45 and S/C Derribaude is not listed in the crew.

 

-RG625- H7-B a Mk,VI, this a/c came from 347 Sqn where it was L8-A.

 

-LL573- H7-B?,...... the photo from the earlier post where we wondered if he was in the crew,...... the book does caption it as H7-B,.....however the tables actually list it as L8-E! The crew in the photo are L-R Sgt Letoublon, Sgt Berges,S/Lt de Miras, Sgt Blandin, S/C Bin, Sgt Lobelle, Sgt Picot. .... and they are a 347 Sqn crew,.... therefore I would say that the Halifax in the photo is L8-B,...serial unknown.

 

-LLl124- H7-B,.....no further details.

 

-PN365- H7-B,......your preferred aircraft!  This B.III only ever wore the codes H7-B and was recorded as on operations on the following dates,..... 21 Dec 44 & 13 Jan 44,.... delivered brand new and presumably lost or written off,..... the French description was Stroke? 

 

S/C. C. Derribehude was listed in the book,.....service number 81056, trade Radio Operator. He was in the crew of Lt. Barthelot in one sortie list that that I could find. 

 

I could not find my copy of the Air Britain Halifax File despite searching everywhere,.....if I find it I`ll let you know. If you want any more info or copies of the pics,....let me know,..... you are welcome to borrow the book too mate,

Cheers,

           Tony

 

PS,.... I finished that little Arma Hurricane that I was showing you,....I`ve stuck it on RFI. 

 

   

Edited by tonyot

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