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Airfix's new 1/72 Bucc


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Ahh the Grey question I know that the following comments may not be liked by some ( I predict a riot) but given the environment the Bucc's operated in the tone of Grey varied massively.

 

Having been around real A/C most of my life if you can find two the same colour next to each other that are identical then I would suggest you are stood outside of the factory or MU.

 

A very dark one fresh from manufacture or deep servicing  as opposed to one that has been battered on the deck of Ark. You only have to look at the internet picture's I recall one where the Ark is heaving ( Hope that's right ) to one side and the deck and A/C are covered in spray only to be baked in sun the next day.

 

I am a big believer in the fact that this is a hobby , therefore for fun and if you like a colour then go for it.

 

I have had a bucc go around the show circuit for at  least 10 years and it was Dark sea grey because it was all I had to meet the finish deadline and do you know how many said it was the wrong shade...……... Less than one.

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However, as most modellers like their aircraft to look spick-and-span a factory finish is more appropriate.  I agree that this would not last long once it arrived in service but people do like to have squadron markings etc.  Yes, this is something of a contradiction, but if anyone wants a faded "real" look then there are other aspects to start playing with as well as the choice of base colour.  Roundel shades, for example.  And there are still a lot more wrong hues than right ones, even then.

 

I also did my Frog Bucc in Dark Sea Grey but was never happy with it.  I think the lack of comment was/is simply a measure of how many people actually notice or care about colour.  It is possible that others could have been polite.  Modellers polite?  Well, maybe not.

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41 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

However, as most modellers like their aircraft to look spick-and-span a factory finish is more appropriate.  I agree that this would not last long once it arrived in service but people do like to have squadron markings etc.  Yes, this is something of a contradiction, but if anyone wants a faded "real" look then there are other aspects to start playing with as well as the choice of base colour.  Roundel shades, for example.  And there are still a lot more wrong hues than right ones, even then.

 

I also did my Frog Bucc in Dark Sea Grey but was never happy with it.  I think the lack of comment was/is simply a measure of how many people actually notice or care about colour.  It is possible that others could have been polite.  Modellers polite?  Well, maybe not.

Do ' most modellers like their aircraft to look spick-and-span' I think looking on here the amount of weathering, pre and post shading and fantastic paint work effects that are carried out I can't see how   a factory finish is more appropriate, appropriate to brand new but not to in-service.

However some onlookers would think a model was wrong if it had different colours on it take for example late in service Lightnings that were still in Green/Gray cammo with mismatched panels some from other A/C and in the light greys and as for Grey RAF F4's it's pick a photo and model to that. Many would say it's realism that modellers strive for and worn paint and markings can be that and often create that 'real look'.

As most of my modelling has always been to deadlines I have never really had the time to weather but the fantastic F14's over on ready for inspection are just works of art. 

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To be honest, I see a lot of "artistic" effects but many fewer attempts at the more real scruffy tatty look.  I see intense colours not faded ones, particularly when it comes to markings such as roundels.  Nor do I think that the examples seen here are necessarily representative.  Not that I have any right to over-generalise, but we are few, and far from agreed amongst ourselves.  I entirely agree that a factory finish is not appropriate to anything that has been in service for any length of time, but they all have to start somewhen.  I still suggest that in-use but clean and tidy is the most common appearance of models.  Somehow I don't see anyone sponsoring a survey amongst the Branch and SIG tables at Telford next month to classify and enumerate, so we'll be left with our own impressions.

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I tried Mr Hobby EDSG on a test card and was amazed how dark it was, it just looked too clinical. I added 17 parts EDSG, 2 parts white and 1 part blue and the difference was huge, the classic what you think RN aircraft should look like that blue hint. The blotchier the better like you say getting battered by sea water doesn’t mix with paint.

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This is one of the more weathered examples I have seen:

 

7C2F5610-B821-4082-B271-121573210063

 

 

Notice some of the tonal shifts on the panel lines on the top of the engines, toward the back on the "coke bottle" hump and the fin right in front of the "Royal Navy".  The intake appears to be a different shade.  There is a box shape around the nose code too.  One caveat: I scanned this photo from the original black and white print over 20 years ago to share with Damien Burke on his website.  My scanning skills were never tip top so I am questioning if the rectangle around the nose cone is a result of a bad scan.  I will look for the original to see if I can confirm that. 

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10 hours ago, delticfan said:

I tried Mr Hobby EDSG on a test card and was amazed how dark it was, it just looked too clinical. I added 17 parts EDSG, 2 parts white and 1 part blue and the difference was huge, the classic what you think RN aircraft should look like that blue hint. The blotchier the better like you say getting battered by sea water doesn’t mix with paint.

Absolutely bang on, if you look at the RN  A/C they  all look too have a blue tint. I was convinced the first Sea Harriers were Blue not grey. There is such a wide varity in military aviation, as a modeller I think its almost impossible to go wrong.

 

I know some A/C refinishers and they get given the paint to apply and the first thought uppermost in their head is not does this match the last coat or is this too dark. , more likely when's the NAFFI van coming !!!

 If its the right BS number it goes on, paint colours change all the time from different suppliers in the real world so I maintain the find a picture and paint to that and if its going to a show and its some thing out of the orinary put the photo with it. A picture tells a thousand words...…...

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10 hours ago, wadeocu said:

This is one of the more weathered examples I have seen:

 

7C2F5610-B821-4082-B271-121573210063

 

 

Notice some of the tonal shifts on the panel lines on the top of the engines, toward the back on the "coke bottle" hump and the fin right in front of the "Royal Navy".  The intake appears to be a different shade.  There is a box shape around the nose code too.  One caveat: I scanned this photo from the original black and white print over 20 years ago to share with Damien Burke on his website.  My scanning skills were never tip top so I am questioning if the rectangle around the nose cone is a result of a bad scan.  I will look for the original to see if I can confirm that. 

Fabulous picture, I don't think your scanning skills are any worse than mine !! But look how the roundel is almost invisible the one issue with such a dark airframe to start with is its difficult to pick up detail as opposed to a light A/C.

The intake may very well have been swapped again look at the phots from the last days of Bucc ops hardly a panel matched on some A/C.

If I have time with my build I may use this as inspiration if you don't mind, it looks to have very little gloss left on it, although the current build may get the newer look and I have just remembered I may have something already in stock....

 

Cheers

 

Paul 

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18 hours ago, wadeocu said:

This is one of the more weathered examples I have seen:

 

7C2F5610-B821-4082-B271-121573210063

 

 

Notice some of the tonal shifts on the panel lines on the top of the engines, toward the back on the "coke bottle" hump and the fin right in front of the "Royal Navy".  The intake appears to be a different shade.  There is a box shape around the nose code too.  One caveat: I scanned this photo from the original black and white print over 20 years ago to share with Damien Burke on his website.  My scanning skills were never tip top so I am questioning if the rectangle around the nose cone is a result of a bad scan.  I will look for the original to see if I can confirm that. 

That also is the jet in the previous Airfix bucc kit, certainly 021 I can't make out the full serial, never knew why the Navy did them so small but I think I can make out XV--4 

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14 minutes ago, Paulaero said:

That also is the jet in the previous Airfix bucc kit, certainly 021 I can't make out the full serial, never knew why the Navy did them so small but I think I can make out XV--4 

This is XV864 circa 1975.

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6 minutes ago, wadeocu said:

This is XV864 circa 1975.

Thanks, I have the previous Airfix kit part built up but got set aside when I like many others no doubt noticed that the serials were different on each side. Any one got any spares who did the South African version ?

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2 minutes ago, Paulaero said:

Thanks, I have the previous Airfix kit part built up but got set aside when I like many others no doubt noticed that the serials were different on each side. Any one got any spares who did the South African version ?

I am looking for a copy of that decal sheet too.  I want to build XV344 circa 10/75 and that sheet does the trick although it had nose code 035 and the kit sheet has 034 (as it was coded in 1978.  Royal Navy serials are tricky to mix and match from different decal sheets because the light blue varies so much from sheet to sheet.  I do like the interpretation that the new kit's decal sheet has for that color.   

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Following on from my post above about XV864/021.  It is interesting to note the older style slipper tank and RWR but it has the ILS gear and is a Martel capable S.2D.

 

I still haven't found the original to compare to the scan but I do feel that it is an accurate scan, I would like to refresh my recollection from the original though.

 

The rectangular area with the over-painted nose code makes sense to me.  The nose codes changed from cruise to cruise so it is plausible that they did a patch-work paint over job.  Look at the below pic with the repainted area over the serial on XT276.  They wouldn't have changed the serial, but there was clearly a patch-work paint job done whatever the reason for it was.  This at least confirms that the practice existed.  Lots of guess work on my part here.

 

5742E711-AFFD-4752-B17D-8C0C51AFB4D7

 

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So some detail painting carried out a dark wash has brought out some of the detail..... 

P1540280

Fan blade detail is excellent

P1540271

Just noticed there are both throttles visible on the throttle box will dry brush these 

P1540268

Found a pair of semi prepared metal Bucc seats, no Idea where they came from 😉

P1540269

The Airfix seat looks similar to a MK4 but have references to a 6 with the wedge pad but the metal seat doesn't as the later seats didn't so looks like there was some change over but when ?? 

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4 hours ago, wadeocu said:

Following on from my post above about XV864/021.  It is interesting to note the older style slipper tank and RWR but it has the ILS gear and is a Martel capable S.2D.

 

I still haven't found the original to compare to the scan but I do feel that it is an accurate scan, I would like to refresh my recollection from the original though.

 

The rectangular area with the over-painted nose code makes sense to me.  The nose codes changed from cruise to cruise so it is plausible that they did a patch-work paint over job.  Look at the below pic with the repainted area over the serial on XT276.  They wouldn't have changed the serial, but there was clearly a patch-work paint job done whatever the reason for it was.  This at least confirms that the practice existed.  Lots of guess work on my part here.

 

5742E711-AFFD-4752-B17D-8C0C51AFB4D7

 

Could that be a change from white serials to black?

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On 17/10/2019 at 19:57, Paulaero said:

I am a big believer in the fact that this is a hobby , therefore for fun and if you like a colour then go for it.

I couldn't have put it better myself!

 

Martian👽 

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18 minutes ago, Rickoshea52 said:

Could that be a change from white serials to black?

That is a great guess, but this photo is from 1976 which is several years after the change to black serials.  I think XT276 was handed over to the RAF after the switch to black serials.

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On 18/10/2019 at 22:14, wadeocu said:

That is a great guess, but this photo is from 1976 which is several years after the change to black serials.  I think XT276 was handed over to the RAF after the switch to black serials.

The only other reason I can think of is a BDR repair to the skin panel, the camouflage doesn’t quite align at the right hand side. 

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On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:18 PM, wadeocu said:

Following on from my post above about XV864/021.  It is interesting to note the older style slipper tank and RWR but it has the ILS gear and is a Martel capable S.2D.

 

I still haven't found the original to compare to the scan but I do feel that it is an accurate scan, I would like to refresh my recollection from the original though.

 

The rectangular area with the over-painted nose code makes sense to me.  The nose codes changed from cruise to cruise so it is plausible that they did a patch-work paint over job.  Look at the below pic with the repainted area over the serial on XT276.  They wouldn't have changed the serial, but there was clearly a patch-work paint job done whatever the reason for it was.  This at least confirms that the practice existed.  Lots of guess work on my part here.

 

5742E711-AFFD-4752-B17D-8C0C51AFB4D7

 

Any relation to the Red Flag jets, they went out in different colours except that area your talking about ? Here for example https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9238349

Edited by tweeky
Typo
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