2020 GB Bunfight poll

[JOCKNEY]

This thread seem to have veered off message, so to return to normal

 

How many Freudian analysts does it take to change a light bulb?

 

Two. One to change it, and the other to hold the penis. LADDER. I MEANT LADDER!

[vppelt68]

Oh no! Power to the people! Please remember, that every repetitive GB and STGB has been voted or otherwise gained enough support from the BM massive. It's what we want, isn't it?

[trickyrich]

2 hours ago, Wez said:

I've just proposed French Fancy 2 (as you know, you've signed up for it), if it goes through there will be a six year gap between the first and second iterations, I think that's a reasonable gap between the two.

I think that's fine gap between the same type of GB. Did i??? I don't remember, it sin't in my spreadsheet.....oh dear crisis moment!!!

48 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

@zebra I agree with you that STGB's are by far the bigger culprits of this but the GB's are also to blame, there are 3 repeaters in next years schedule. I think that this is something that our esteemed moerator ( @Enzo Matrix ) would need to be involved in and may need us to have some kind of vote on, though personally I would be happy to accept his judgement.

I believe that this could be a really good thing and could get some of us out of modelling ruts and repeating ourselves, which might encourage more members to return to the GB section as we seem to be in an ever decreasing circle of participation.

spot on!!

24 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Oh no! Power to the people! Please remember, that every repetitive GB and STGB has been voted or otherwise gained enough support from the BM massive. It's what we want, isn't it?

yes and no, I had spent some time going over the different polls and looking at lots of the GB's. Whilst everything looks great with the GB's & STGB's, once you start digging a bit deeper they are becoming less popular, completion rates arn't quite as good and as has been mentioned earlier actual voting numbers are down and poll choices as well. 

 

Yes these repetitive GB's/STGB's will get the votes mainly because members have a favourite subject they like to build over and over again and if there's a GB/STGB that allows them to do that then they well until the cows come home.

 

But is that a healthy thing for GB's? People who don't like them won't participate and if these new and fresh ideas are continually miss out because of the repeating juggernauts....

 

I think maybe in future polls there are some quotas put in place.....we did for a while have something like this but it seems to have gotten loss.

 

Maybe say with 8 spots, 3 are for the big repeaters, 4 for new and fresh ideas, and 1 for non-aircraft? There would still be a big bun fight for the repeaters.

 

For STGB's there has to be a timer put on repeats, as it's out of control with no new STGB spots available to mid-2021!!! That is ridiculous and probably explains why participation rate for a lot of them is down....some barely have enough builds to cover their original eligibility requirements. I'm not sure what the fix for that will be other then putting a limit on when an STGB can be repeated......but even that won't fix the overall issues.

[JOCKNEY]

Hi @trickyrich

 

For goodness sake open another cold tinnie and relax, please mate this is supposed to be about us enjoying ourselves in our spare time, what little some of us have of it !

 

I completely share your frustration that some of the most intriguing GBs have unfortunately missed out on this and previous occasions, but BM is a democracy so we have to go with what the members voted for.

 

An idea might be that our GB Lord aka @Enzo Matrixcould have a "wild card" that he can decide on a completely left field GB that would encourage a completely different set of builds to be attempted.

 

Examples of this in the last Poll would have been ( IMHO ! ) 

Anything but injection or

Small Wars

 

On a positive note, i would like to thank Enzo and everyone else who have both supported and participated in the "Classic GB's" these have seen an amazing variety of kits being built, so hopefully this can be a catalyst to provide wider participation from many more members of BM in future GB's

 

Cheers Pat 

 

 

[trickyrich]

you just want more jokes, a tinnie at this time of the day is a wee bit early for me......it's not hot enough! 

 

Don't worry I'm stalking Enzo with bad elephant jokes! 

[reini]

What's a KUTA btw? Sorry, couldn't find better place to ask...

[Mjwomack]

It's a Kick Up The Ahh, how to explain the next word?!!! I'm sure this doesn't apply to you, but some of us have a LOT of stalled builds sitting on the Shelf of Doom and gathering dust. So this is the annual clear out, ready for lots of new kits to be added to the stash!!

It's a very diverse collection of builds, one or two of which seem to make an annual visit!

[Col.]

What do we do though gang? To my mind there's more interest in specialised and narrow-focused GB than general ones which means we can propose as many cool and inclusive ideas as we want but if they are not popular and gain names first then votes we are simply wasting our time. For my own part the Interceptor GB has proved popular while Small Wars just didn't cut it. The Buccaneer STGB took a while to get the required number of names even while the new Airfix kit was very much in focus whereas 109 episode III reached the level in only a matter of weeks. Then again 90s NATO Vs Warsaw Pact gained little interest during the vote. Was I right to avoid hyping up my GBs during the vote and let everyone decide for themselves? There was certainly clear leaders from the start but the middle ground seen some intense activity throughout the voting period even though not many new votes were cast towards the endgame

Personally I feel that, ultimately, this is a democracy and if we start to enforce too many strict rules rather than allow free will to guide the direction of choice we will loose the interest of potential participants.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Col.

[JOCKNEY]

27 minutes ago, reini said:

What's a KUTA btw? Sorry, couldn't find better place to ask...

Kick up the bottom think alternative 4 letter word A*s* !

[Rabbit Leader]

13 hours ago, trickyrich said:

... a tinnie at this time of the day is a wee bit early for me......it's not hot enough! 

Struth!! It is up here mate, best I have one for both of us!

 

If I can put my small point across, why do STGB’s actually gain an automatic slot as soon as they reach the required number, whilst themed GB’s don’t? Maybe all GB’s could go into the end of year bunfight and then the members can vote whichever way they choose. We may end up with lesser STGB’s and more themed ones, but if that’s what the members have voted, then that’s what gets scheduled.

 

Anyway, I still feel like a BM GB newbie so probably shouldn’t comment and just enjoy those ones I participate in. It’s all good fun and we are all lucky to share a common love for all things scale modelling. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PhantomBigStu]

@Rabbit Leader Perhaps because we know what we are getting when we put out names down for STGB, 30 people explicitly voting with their keyboards for the subject, where as themed GB's (with exceptions that generally get automatic entry anyway) are much more nebulous

[Hockeyboy76]

Dare I say it’s all getting very B**xit. 

[CliffB]

 

4 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

 

If I can put my small point across, why do STGB’s actually gain an automatic slot as soon as they reach the required number, whilst themed GB’s don’t? Maybe all GB’s could go into the end of year bunfight and then the members can vote whichever way they choose. We may end up with lesser STGB’s and more themed ones, but if that’s what the members have voted, then that’s what gets scheduled.

 

 

Hi Dave.

 

We probably need to ensure that minority interests are not totally excluded. For example, would an armour themed STGB stand any chance in an annual bunfight?  I'd suggest no chance at all!

 

I know that some believe the majority view should always prevail and I suppose that's OK provided the voting system is fair.  Unfortunately, our current voting system can produce results that are not representative.

 

Here are two recent examples which I chose pretty much at random (so there's absolutely no criticism intended for the corresponding hosts or participants ):.

The two examples are the MTO II GB and the Pz.IV STGB.

 

First question: which would win if they were both in a bunfight vote together?  Answer: almost certainly the MTO GB.

Second question: which actually had the larger number of active participants?  Answer: the Pz.IV STGB.

 

If I counted correctly, 35 members posted one or more builds in the Pz.IV Gallery, but only 21 members posted in the MTO II Gallery.

 

The 21 posting members from MTO II equate to just 33% of the 64 members who have recently voted for MTO III.

The 35 posting members from Pz.IV equate to 85% of the 39 members who have recently voted for the British AFV GB proposal.

 

I know that my comparisons are not precise, but to me it's clear that a large number of 'hollow votes' (my name for the votes cast by members who don't then participate), can distort the voting and falsely put some GBs through, ahead of more popular ones (more popular that is, amongst those who actually participate). 

 

I think the answer is simple.  We should be given fewer votes - I'd suggest a maximum of three each.  This would concentrate our minds on what we really want to build and significantly reduce the number of 'hollow votes'.

 

Just my two pennies worth !

 

Cheers

Cliff

 

(PS: for the record, I participated in the MTO II GB, but not in the Pz.IV STGB).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Col.]

Have to admit that I've cast plenty hollow votes over the years but every time it has been for GBs I fully intended to participate in. Come the GB, however, life has got in the way and held me from participating. It was nice to have the choice but circumstances prevented me from taking the opportunity. In certain other cases I've participated in GBs I didn't put my name or vote towards. Then again I've also been moderating three GBs at the same time and therefore not been able to undertake a project for any of them

Ultimately to my mind choice is important and if we have to discriminate once or twice a year to promote particular events that encourage a different genre then that can't be a bad thing. Sometimes we don't realise what we want until we get given it

[Kushan_Farsight]

50 minutes ago, CliffB said:

I know that my comparisons are not precise, but to me it's clear that a large number of 'hollow votes' (my name for the votes cast by members who don't then participate), can distort the voting and falsely put some GBs through, ahead of more popular ones (more popular that is, amongst those who actually participate). 

I have no idea how one would implement this, but perhaps members who have completed prior GBs could get some kind of double weighting for their votes. This would mean that your overall voter 'numbers' are made up of those who are most likely to complete.

Although perhaps this stuffs up using vote nos to determine number of participants. Perhaps those with no completed GBs get 0.5 votes?

Personal note - as a newby to the BM forums, i do find all this Group build stuff quite confusing, at least in terms of the nomination and determination. Not sure on the rules and limits on GBs, some of the abbreviations have obviously been around the forums for years and take some form of cryptography for me to determine (thankfully i now know what KUTA gbs are now) what even is a STGB? Short Term Group Build? Six till Ten Group Build? who knows! Have i missed an FAQ with all these terms and explains how all this works? if so could someone direct me to it  

 

From looking at general post activity and goings on within the GB threads, looks like most of the members on here are preferential to flying vehicles, which may bias a lot of the GB topics, so i would wonder if there could be some way to spice that up, or encourage more variation (perhaps a dual kit plane/afv combo GB). I think i am in the Revell Group Build (but dont quite understand why that wasnt part of all this voting stuff?- because its an STGB?) and i did vote in this bunfight so will be certainly doing 2 or 3 of those topics, probably Chopper, Navy and Interceptor.

 

Finally, i know its the participation that counts not the winning, but are there ever 'prizes' for the GB's? Even if its the host rooting around in his old stash just giving a way a 1/72 Starfix Bf109, or a 10% off your next order at Hannants code etc? - this might encourage more participation? i saw something from a thread i think in 2016 which offered some discount P-51 kits (the baseline of the group build) along with some bonuses to the winner, but nothing for the last couple of years?

 

 

 

 

[stevej60]

It's maybe a matter of broadening a few more of the GB's to get more participation,my ugly mug can be found in most GB's as for the most

part the only modelling I do is for said GB's,but we have many fine figure,sci-fi.Maritime,vehicle and all other manner of modellers here but

not many GB's get through to entice them,we're gaining numbers for the Classic Revell/Monogram GB proposed not only for we aircraft

modellers but for the vast number of other genres Revell have covered over the years so theres a perfect excuse for bringing more into the

GB,so it may be worth looking at more GB's along the lines of the BM 10th anniversary GB which the 10 figured in the models built.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

20 hours ago, trickyrich said:

Don't worry I'm stalking Enzo with bad elephant jokes! 

he's right, yannow...  It's quite scary! 

[Robert Stuart]

2 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

{snip}

 

From looking at general post activity and goings on within the GB threads, looks like most of the members on here are preferential to flying vehicles, which may bias a lot of the GB topics, so i would wonder if there could be some way to spice that up, or encourage more variation (perhaps a dual kit plane/afv combo GB). I think i am in the Revell Group Build (but dont quite understand why that wasnt part of all this voting stuff?- because its an STGB?) and i did vote in this bunfight so will be certainly doing 2 or 3 of those topics, probably Chopper, Navy and Interceptor.

 

Finally, i know its the participation that counts not the winning, but are there ever 'prizes' for the GB's? Even if its the host rooting around in his old stash just giving a way a 1/72 Starfix Bf109, or a 10% off your next order at Hannants code etc? - this might encourage more participation? i saw something from a thread i think in 2016 which offered some discount P-51 kits (the baseline of the group build) along with some bonuses to the winner, but nothing for the last couple of years?

 

 

 

 

I believe that the Revell GB was in the 2019 poll - but can't find the poll to confirm.

 

Some builds do have prizes.  Having hosted builds with prizes, I feel they have their own problems - not least: the nature of the prize has to suit the Britmodeller audience - some of the most active people in this thread are based in Australia.  (ot: As a Brit, I wouldn't 'alf like a discount in some of the Aussie model shops - bought some good stuff from down under)

[Col.]

2 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

Personal note - as a newby to the BM forums, i do find all this Group build stuff quite confusing, at least in terms of the nomination and determination. Not sure on the rules and limits on GBs, some of the abbreviations have obviously been around the forums for years and take some form of cryptography for me to determine (thankfully i now know what KUTA gbs are now) what even is a STGB? Short Term Group Build? Six till Ten Group Build? who knows! Have i missed an FAQ with all these terms and explains how all this works? if so could someone direct me to it  

Single Type Group Build - a very focused event where a, er, well, a single type is celebrated in model form such as the P.40, T-55, Buccaneer, or Bf109  

[Hockeyboy76]

We modellers are a fickle lot!

There have been some cracking “new” ideas for GBs this year, @Rabbit Leader‘s “In the year you were born” for example, which if you look at the gallery has produced a great variety of different models. 

[Wez]

3 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

I think i am in the Revell Group Build (but dont quite understand why that wasnt part of all this voting stuff?

Yes you've expressed an interest in participating in that GB but it needs to get the numbers - it's currently three short of being included in the poll for this year but once thirty members have signed up it will be included in the poll for next year.  So far, IIRC, we've only had one classic GB per year (Matchbox, Airfix and Frog - not necessarily in that order), for the past few years.  Next year's classic GB is the Heller GB (you're welcome to join that one BTW), if the Revell'o'gram GB gets enough participants it will likely be the classic GB for 2021.

59 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

I believe that the Revell GB was in the 2019 poll - but can't find the poll to confirm.

It wasn't in the poll for the reason explained above!

 

Phew!! I'm going for a long sit down...   ...unfortunately it's to study.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

Have i missed an FAQ with all these terms and explains how all this works?

Here are a few of the things that explain it. 
 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234996098-the-future-of-stgbs/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235007884-guidelines-for-gb-hosts/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235007886-wants-trades-buying-and-selling-in-gbs/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235007889-eligibility-of-entries-in-groupbuilds/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235007890-group-build-and-single-type-group-build-thresholds/

 

Yes it seems to be a lot of reading but most of those are only a few paragraphs long. Keep asking questions we are always happy to help. 

 

Dennis

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

4 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

looks like most of the members on here are preferential to flying vehicles, which may bias a lot of the GB topics, so i would wonder if there could be some way to spice that up, or encourage more variation (perhaps a dual kit plane/afv combo GB)

Unfortunately that is reality, aviation is by far the majority of builds in any forum or show. However some of us are trying to rebalance the situation. Since January of 2018 we’ve had the M3/M4 Sherman-Lee-Grant build, Mk.IV Panzer, Mk.VI Tiger, Patton-Pershing, and currently T-54/55 builds. Ive hosted the Patton-Pershing build and just missed my chance for all things British AFV’s. I will also be hosting the Mk.V Panther group build next fall. There is a T-34 STGB coming in the spring. So there have been a number of builds related to armor recently. Im currently running the Movie-TV/Sci-fi/Whif group build in which pretty much anything under the sun real or imagined can be built. So that is another option ? 
 

Dennis

Edited December 3, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[JOCKNEY]

Hi Dennis

As someone with a shocking record of building anything without wings. Please keep encouraging people to participate. 

Somewhere in the stash lies a Panther, first challenge finding it second doing it justice. 

Having not built an armoured kit since i was a nipper i promise if i find it ill build it, as long as you try not to laugh at the results !

Cheers Pat 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

46 minutes ago, JOCKNEY said:

Having not built an armoured kit since i was a nipper i promise if i find it ill build it, as long as you try not to laugh at the results !

Deal Pat... Im going to be scratch building a Skorzeny Mk.V M10 clone from the Ardenne’s. So mine will be laughable as well if i don't get the cuts correct. I’ll add you to the list as a tentative for now. 

49 minutes ago, JOCKNEY said:

As someone with a shocking record of building anything without wings. Please keep encouraging people to participate. 

Thank you... I do what my heart and conscience tell me to do. If its to motivate then i do that, if its to offer assistance then i help. 
 

Dennis