Muddyf Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) I have read in multiple places (books and this very site) that some Blenheim IV's wearing TSS but painted with night or black undersides. Now, does any photographic evidence exist of this? I have MANY photos and without getting into the whole debate of colour recognition in B&W photos, none i have show categorically the TSS and Black schemes. Does anyone know where (if they exist) any photos can be found? Thanks in advance! Edited October 16, 2019 by Muddyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 The closest I know of would be Stuart Scott's book on 105 Sq. (Battleaxe Blenheims? Like that, anyway.) However I think the reference is to the squadron (and I believe other units) having a number of aircraft for night operations, and where this is mentioned the aircraft would still be in standard Bomber Command colours ie TLS. Logically this habit can be expected to be continued when the units changed to TSS, but that's an assumption. When I first saw a mention of black undersurfaces I assumed that the unit would apply the RAF's black distemper whenever required, but it was suggest that they would have a number of aircraft permanently so painted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I'm away from my books at the mo but some Blenheim IV fighter squadrons were transferred to Coastal Command. Also 53 and 59 operated Blenheim IV bombers. MJF Bowyer in Airfix Magazine Annual (not sure which) notes that the latter had black undersurfaces from October 1940 and the former had the black/white fighter undersides until the change to Sky from June 1940, with some having all black. However these pre date the July 1941 introduction of TSS on landplanes which lists the aircraft types it was to be applied to and the Blenheim does not feature in that list. So the documentation I can find on my laptop does not support TSS/Night for UK based Blenheims but they were also used for anti-shipping attacks from Malta and I don't have much information on the colours used there. @tonyot is your man there I think. Another possibility for TSS/Night would be Fleet Air Arm aircraft, I don't know if they had any Blenheims for second line duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Most of the photos I know from Malta show aircraft apparently in TLS, although this is always debatable. As the aircraft were officially on temporary attachment this seems reasonable. The aircraft were also used for land strikes, so TSS may not have been considered entirely suitable. There is a colourised photo in Battleaxe Blenheim's showing desert colours, but I'm reluctant to place any great credence on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: Most of the photos I know from Malta show aircraft apparently in TLS, although this is always debatable. As the aircraft were officially on temporary attachment this seems reasonable. The aircraft were also used for land strikes, so TSS may not have been considered entirely suitable. There is a colourised photo in Battleaxe Blenheim's showing desert colours, but I'm reluctant to place any great credence on that. Another view of desert colours with dubious value as a reference is the cover of Shiphunters by R.Gillman, the book which made me think of Malta https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shiphunters-R-Gillman/dp/042618761X I've got it somewhere but don't hold your breath while I find it 😉 Edited October 16, 2019 by rossm More detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddyf Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 Thanks for the replies so far. I thought it might be a long shot! As usual with looking for reference materials from the period, there are millions of photos, just none of the thing you want 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Never say never,...... but of the top of my head I`ve certainly not come across a Blenheim Mk.IV in that scheme,......... the Beaufort did wear the scheme though. Cheers Tony Edited October 17, 2019 by tonyot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) I think that you can make a good case that it did exist, assuming (as seems likely) the UK squadrons continued to fly some night missions after repainting into TSS. You may be able to find something in the squadrons' Operational Record Books, and if the same serials/codes crop up time and again on night ops then bingo. So perhaps a visit to Kew? But even that won't be proof. As for Malta, there's the problem that the units were re-equipped with tropicalised airframes before going out. You could argue that after TSS had been adopted, these would have been in TSS. But who knows? Edited October 17, 2019 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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