Troy Smith Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 W9232, late Mk.I built by Gloster. I used this in another thread, but then looking at it mote closely the odder it got... it's evidently been repainted, but how did they get the camo pattern..... the flaking paint behind the roundel makes me wonder if it was all black at one point, hence the complete repaint with a, erm, improvised pattern. Note also the upper wing roundel centres... and the reversal on the colours, on DFS the Dark Green usually runs through the cockpit. For comparison My Mason Hurricane book does not have any info on W9232, anyone else, @Seahawk or @Graham Boak have various Air Britain books which my help? hope of interest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coors54 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Interesting colour change above the fin flash too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: 30 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: anyone else, @Seahawk or @Graham Boak have various Air Britain books which my help? Sorry, in exile at the mo. Try again at the weekend - if the mystery hasn't been solved by then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 85, 23, 247, 55OTU, SF Northolt, India, to instructional airframe 4/10/44. I have it marked with a B, which I suspect means that it was one of those hauled out of an Indian OTU and rushed to the last airbase in Burma. But that would take a little more digging, and I suspect that this is from its time at 55OTU. 85 will probably have painted it black, so that's a good call. It might be with looking at other photos of 85's repaints and checking against their patterns. Note late prop and what looks like yellow leading edges. Edited October 14, 2019 by Graham Boak 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phas3e Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Similar schemes were found on 87Sqn Hurricanes that were repainted in day fighter colours before Dieppe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Hi seems like maybe a replacement starboard wing ? cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 She has yellow leading edges, isn't she? And C roundel. So it is Ocean Grey/Dark Green scheme, late in the war for Mk I Hurricane. Maybe she has really a lot of replacement parts, also tail looks like as from odd not even serial. Long history behind her... J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Even the port wing shows a non standard camo pattern. It also looks to be a cross between A and B schemes ...all gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I'm not even sure the upper wing roundels are the same size. The port one seems to touch the yellow leading edge stripe, the starboard one does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Is it only me that sees paint brush strokes just behind the canopy? A retouched photo? /Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cngaero Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 56 minutes ago, Seahawk said: I'm not even sure the upper wing roundels are the same size. The port one seems to touch the yellow leading edge stripe, the starboard one does not. Could it have been re-winged following accident repairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I can't imagine any reason why someone would want to retouch a photo and end up with something like this. However it is easy to understand why a rapid in-unit paint such as during the Dieppe preparations would appear very scruffy and rushed - RAF units did not have airbrushes. I'm sure I've seen other such photos looking even worse. A replacement wingtip would appear in a correct pattern. Unless the replacement occured before the repaint, perhaps. Possibly simply two different painters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Another photo of the same machine W9232 is presented in that book https://books.google.pl/books?id=yXkpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT354&lpg=PT354&dq=hurricane+w9232&source=bl&ots=C2xaKPHKgS&sig=ACfU3U2y-Di3paocEc8Jur0EUTBPjfa0Bg&hl=pl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKjI7mxJ7lAhXSlIsKHQdqCy8Q6AEwD3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=hurricane w9232&f=false Here is the same photo as in that book http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=W9232 with some infor on SOC date (10.04.1944) and the same as posted by Troy with info on history http://aviationarchaeology.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Hawker-Hurricane-losses-in-Greece-1941-1944.pdf Indeed, she was shipped finally to India. The photo is from IWM collection MH3186 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126562 Description: Hurricane Mark I, W9232, of the Station Flight at Northolt, Middlesex, in flight. This aircraft formerly served with Nos. 85, 23 and 247 Squadrons RAF, and with No. 55 Operational Training Unit. It was subsequently shipped to India. Cheers J-W 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 P.S. The another photo: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I think I know exactly what went on with this aircraft. Someone decided that they would torture us scale modellers in the future, seeing the inevitable fact that people would one day build models of these aircraft. They decided that they should have the scheme as mismatched and non-standard as possible, and knew photography was primarily in black and white so it'd be even more of a pain for us to decipher what they did. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 hours ago, JWM said: btw - is the bottom dark here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, JWM said: btw - is the bottom dark here? I was going to say no, but looking at the this again either shadow, but it's pale under neath behind the sky band.... also, it has type A underwing.... gets odder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 4 hours ago, JWM said: P.S. The another photo: In the smaller pic (above) note the A type roundels under the wings while C type on fuselage. I'd say MSG underneath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, Paul J said: In the smaller pic (above) note the A type roundels under the wings while C type on fuselage. I'd say MSG underneath. I mentioned the type A..... Note, in both photos, behind the tailwheel is a pale tone, even though in shadow from tailplane, the rest is dark. IIRC the bit behind the tailwheel is a separate bit.... suggesting a dark underside. I'd suggest that a in field repaint from a nightfighter scheme, with no reference to the MAP pattern, which is why I posted this, as that is very unusual! Regarding other examples of repaints from overall black or Night, and mention of Dieppe, AFAIK Dieppe relates to 1 Sq, and a famous series of air to air images https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235025819-interesting-scheme-for-the-hurricane-fan-to-replicate/ when their planes had been repainted into Day Fighter Scheme from night intruder black, and were weathering badly.... that's a coat of Medium Sea Grey weathering off to show the black.... The other mentioned is 87, which was when they switched to the night intruder scheme. which is noted for pretty crude paintwork, but even so both are based on the MAP pattern check out the brushwork.... note the splodge into the roundel! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Retaining Type A underwing roundels after the rest of the markings have been changed to Type C is not uncommon - well, I can think of other instances, mostly, I admit, in a sort of transitional phase immediately after the marking changes came in. If W9232 left frontline service around then, maybe its subsequent owners (OTU, SF) didn't see tidying up the marking as a priority, especially if there was little likelihood of contact with the enemy. I think we're overthinking the undersides colour a bit: like Paul, I'd go for MSG undersides. I'm still trying to work out what's going on with the paintwork above the fin flash. I'm wondering if it's showing the alteration of the fin flash proportions from (A Type) 27"x 24" to (C Type) 24" x 24 using non-matching or poorly mixed paint. PS I'm quoting those fin flash dimensions from memory. The relevant Ducimus Camouflage and Markings will have the correct dimensions: please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Note on Troy's last post LK-A has retained the earlier taller proportions while LK-R has the later shape. Edited October 15, 2019 by Seahawk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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