Fritag Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 10:57 AM, crobinsonh said: This is a link to an album Great link Colin. Some absolute gems there. Including a Bucc upside down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crobinsonh Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Fritag said: Great link Colin. Some absolute gems there. Including a Bucc upside down! Only for a maximum of 1 minute though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Modeller Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 On 10/12/2019 at 12:40 PM, canberra kid said: Hi Mark I'll scan the pages and sort the post out properly, in the meantime, in answer to the question details O1, P1, Q1 and R1 indicate the area should not be painted. John Thanks very much for the info. I'm going for yellow primer for this area. I seem to remember Buccs having that yellow type of primer rather than green. Presumably it's left unpainted because of heat build up from the BLC blowing. Don't know why the heat wouldn't affect the primer, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, CT Modeller said: Thanks very much for the info. I'm going for yellow primer for this area. I seem to remember Buccs having that yellow type of primer rather than green. Presumably it's left unpainted because of heat build up from the BLC blowing. Don't know why the heat wouldn't affect the primer, though. It could be zinc chromate, but I still think the 'gold' anodising would be more likely. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) It does resemble hex chromium with its slightly irridescent pale lemon colour. That would explain the reference to 'unpainted' as hexavalent chromium isn't paint, it's used to treat prepared metal surfaces against corrosion. Fascinating insight. Thanks for the fantastic diagrams John. Tony Edited October 18, 2019 by tony.t spelling typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Question on the Red Beard mounting for the Buccaneer. Could the door be rotated, so the weapon was fully enclosed, or did the door have to stay fixed leaving the weapon exposed? Regards, Murph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Murph said: Question on the Red Beard mounting for the Buccaneer. Could the door be rotated, so the weapon was fully enclosed, or did the door have to stay fixed leaving the weapon exposed? Regards, Murph Hi Murph The the door was fixed open and the weapon was mounted on a streamline fairing. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, canberra kid said: Hi Murph The the door was fixed open and the weapon was mounted on a streamline fairing. John Thanks to John and Andy Davies help, Freightdog will be releasing a Red Beard bomb bay set at Scale Modelworld for the new Airfix kit. This is a new master, test casting arrived yesterday and looks spot on, Streamlined fairing fits straight into Airfix open bomb bay. Colin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) @Colin @ Freightdog ModelsI think that bomb door and fairing was similar to the type used for the twin WE177 carriage aswel. Maybe another option? Are there plans at all for s new S.1 conversion set, I would think that would be pretty popular. Edited October 24, 2019 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 hours ago, canberra kid said: Hi Murph The the door was fixed open and the weapon was mounted on a streamline fairing. John John, Thank you for the information. Regards, Murph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, 71chally said: @Colin @ Freightdog ModelsI think that bomb door and fairing was similar to the type used for the twin WE177 carriage aswel. Maybe another option? Are there plans at all for s new S.1 conversion set, I would think that would be pretty popular. The WE177A is quite different, also working on that one with information from John but probably won't be in time for Telford, should be soon after. Looking at S.1 but it gets quite complicated so not sure if it will happen. A few other items being prepared but won't announce them till ready. Thanks, Colin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Colin @ Freightdog Models said: The WE177A is quite different, also working on that one with information from John but probably won't be in time for Telford, should be soon after. Looking at S.1 but it gets quite complicated so not sure if it will happen. A few other items being prepared but won't announce them till ready. Thanks, Colin The We 177A was a 600lb weapon and about the same size as a standard UK 1000lb bomb and would not have needed a special door, the WE177B used by the RAF Buccaneer was 950 lb again wouldn't need a special door. The Red beard was taken out of service by 1971. Selwyn Edited October 25, 2019 by Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Selwyn said: The We 177A was a 600lb weapon and about the same size as a standard UK 1000lb bomb and would not have needed a special door, the WE177B used by the RAF Buccaneer was 950 lb again wouldn't need a special door. WE177 definitely had a special door and fairings, and unique carriers, you can see it in various photos and in the AP illustrations posted earlier in the thread. To me it looks similar to the Red Beard door. Edited October 25, 2019 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 55 minutes ago, 71chally said: WE177 definitely had a special door and fairings, and unique carriers, you can see it in various photos and in the AP illustrations posted earlier in the thread. To me it looks similar to the Red Beard door. No that's the standard bomb bay door showing the position of the attachment points for the WE177 carriers. if you look at the drawing it also shows the 1000lb bomb mounting points. Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Selwyn said: No that's the standard bomb bay door showing the position of the attachment points for the WE177 carriers. if you look at the drawing it also shows the 1000lb bomb mounting points. Referring to these images, On 10/5/2019 at 11:09 AM, canberra kid said: More bomb stuff, XN977 1976 and the second image down in this link, https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=394.90 Edited October 25, 2019 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 71chally said: Referring to these images, XN977 1976 and the second image down in this link, https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=394.90 See below fig 1 "Bomb Door tank construction" it shows the inner side attachment points for the WE177 carriers. if you look at the drawing it also shows the 1000lb bomb mounting points to each side of them. The image above also shows the rear 1000lb carrier attachment points. It appears that the front fairing attached to the the photoflash points at the front of the bomb bay. there are also both fairing attachment points shown on the drawing. Selwyn (Just draining a bottle of Newcastle brown!) Edited October 25, 2019 by Selwyn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I think there has been a bit of misunderstanding of terminology on these posts. Be it the FAA flat bomb door or the RAF bulged door, there was only one door type for all roles. As shown on the AP diagrams, within the bomb door roof were the attachment points for 1,000lb bombs on stn's 5,6,7 & 8. Then side by side in the middle are stn's 9 & 10 for WE177. A complete bomb door change was a major task, way too big for a role change. The riggers and sooties would be gathered in the corner of the hangar sobbing! There was enough swearing on a change to tanker fit and shoehorning a bomb bay fuel tank in. For WE177 carriage there were front and rear fairings added. These most likely were attached to the flash crate and photo crate points (need a rigger to confirm). Their purpose was to smooth the airflow through the bomb bay and aid weapon separation. Why it was considered to be needed for WE177, but not needed for 1,000lb bombs, who knows?! The special weapons carriers were longer in length than the 1,000lb carriers. They had a 115 ERU and a BRSL (bomb release safety lock) taking up more space. The regular 1,000lb carrier just had a No2 Mk 1 ERU. Sorry about the quality. It's a scan of a poor photocopy from my old Q course notes. Rob. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Ah, that explains it nicely Selwyn & Rob. So for the Red Beard fit it was fairings (all be it different shapes) attached to the bomb door? Edited October 26, 2019 by 71chally 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The new Airfix kit recommends Humbrol 165 Medium Sea Grey for the cockpit interior and Humbrol 196 Light Grey for the inside of the undercarriage bays, etc. However Modeldecal sheet 57 states that, for FAA Buccaneers in the same timeframe, the cockpit interiors were in BS381C: 632 Dark Admiralty Grey and the undercarriage bays, inside of air brakes, etc in BS381C: 697, a semi-gloss light blue-grey. Aeroguide 30 Buccaneer agrees. Xtracolor do Dark Admiralty Grey as X401: it is a rather darker shade than Medium Sea Grey. 1. Who is right, Airfix or Modeldecal/Aeroguide? 2. Is there an out-of-the-tin match for BS 697 in either the Humbrol or Xtracolor range? I vaguely recall that there used to be one but it may be one of the colours now discontinued. Happy to be told Humbrol 196 is just perfect as a match but my confidence in Airfix's colour call-outs needs restoring after being a little shaken by the cockpit colour discrepancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Airfix will only quote Humbrol numbers, regardless of whether this is a good match or a poor one. Sometimes it is a good match, but frankly I'd use independent references as an alternative unless proven dodgy themselves. I would certainly prefer Modeldecal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Ta da... Colourcoats NARN51 (ex-M23) - Royal Navy Light Admiralty Grey (BS381C-697) https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/royal-navy/products/colourcoats-narn51-m23-royal-navy-light-admiralty-grey-bs381c-697 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Thanks, Jamie. Even allowing for the vagaries of monitors, etc, at least I have a much better idea of the colour now. It's considerably bluer and maybe a bit darker than my tin of Humbrol 196, which is more like Light Aircraft Grey. Alas, it's not one of the Colourcoats paints I own. Feel sure I have a tin of something somewhere that matches it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Generous of you as always to share such information in such detail John. My thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Generous of you as always to share such information in such detail John. My thanks. No problems Tony, stuff like this is too good to hide! John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just had a chance to catch up on these fabulous 5 pages of information - thanks for posting CJP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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