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John's & other Bucc info here


canberra kid

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On 10/12/2019 at 12:40 PM, canberra kid said:

Hi Mark

I'll scan the pages and sort the post out properly, in the meantime, in answer to the question details  O1, P1, Q1 and R1 indicate the area should not be painted.

 

John 

Thanks very much for the info. I'm going for yellow primer for this area. I seem to remember Buccs having that yellow type of primer rather than green. Presumably it's left unpainted because of heat build up from the BLC blowing. Don't know why the heat wouldn't affect the primer, though.

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3 hours ago, CT Modeller said:

Thanks very much for the info. I'm going for yellow primer for this area. I seem to remember Buccs having that yellow type of primer rather than green. Presumably it's left unpainted because of heat build up from the BLC blowing. Don't know why the heat wouldn't affect the primer, though.

It could be zinc chromate, but I still think the 'gold' anodising would be more likely.

 

John  

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It does resemble hex chromium with its slightly irridescent pale lemon colour. That would explain the reference to 'unpainted' as hexavalent chromium isn't paint, it's used to treat prepared metal surfaces against corrosion. 

 

Fascinating insight. Thanks for the fantastic diagrams John.

 

Tony 

 

Edited by tony.t
spelling typo
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Question on the Red Beard mounting for the Buccaneer.  Could the door be rotated, so the weapon was fully enclosed, or did the door have to stay fixed leaving the weapon exposed?

 

Regards,

Murph 

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1 hour ago, Murph said:

Question on the Red Beard mounting for the Buccaneer.  Could the door be rotated, so the weapon was fully enclosed, or did the door have to stay fixed leaving the weapon exposed?

 

Regards,

Murph 

Hi Murph

The the door was fixed open and the weapon was mounted on a streamline fairing.

spacer.png 

 

John

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1 hour ago, canberra kid said:

Hi Murph

The the door was fixed open and the weapon was mounted on a streamline fairing.

spacer.png 

 

John

 

Thanks to John and Andy Davies help, Freightdog will be releasing a Red Beard bomb bay set at Scale Modelworld for the new Airfix kit. This is a new master, test casting arrived yesterday and looks spot on, Streamlined fairing fits straight into Airfix open bomb bay.

 

Colin 

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1 hour ago, 71chally said:

@Colin @ Freightdog ModelsI think that bomb door and fairing was similar to the type used for the twin WE177 carriage aswel. Maybe another option?

Are there plans at all for s new S.1 conversion set, I would think that would be pretty popular.

The WE177A is quite different, also working on that one with information from John but probably won't be in time for Telford, should be soon after.

 

Looking at S.1 but it gets quite complicated so not sure if it will happen. A few other items being prepared but won't announce them till ready.

 

Thanks,

Colin

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Colin @ Freightdog Models said:

The WE177A is quite different, also working on that one with information from John but probably won't be in time for Telford, should be soon after.

 

Looking at S.1 but it gets quite complicated so not sure if it will happen. A few other items being prepared but won't announce them till ready.

 

Thanks,

Colin

 

 

 

The We 177A was a 600lb weapon and about the same size as a standard UK 1000lb bomb  and would not have needed  a special door, the  WE177B used by the RAF Buccaneer was 950 lb  again wouldn't need a special door.

The Red beard was taken out of service by 1971.

 

Selwyn

Edited by Selwyn
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3 hours ago, Selwyn said:

The We 177A was a 600lb weapon and about the same size as a standard UK 1000lb bomb  and would not have needed  a special door, the  WE177B used by the RAF Buccaneer was 950 lb  again wouldn't need a special door.

WE177 definitely had a special door and fairings, and unique carriers, you can see it in various photos and in the AP illustrations posted earlier in the thread.  To me it looks similar to the Red Beard door.

Edited by 71chally
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55 minutes ago, 71chally said:

WE177 definitely had a special door and fairings, and unique carriers, you can see it in various photos and in the AP illustrations posted earlier in the thread.  To me it looks similar to the Red Beard door.

No that's the standard bomb bay door showing the position of the attachment points for the  WE177 carriers. if you look at the drawing it also shows the 1000lb bomb mounting points. 

 

Selwyn

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1 hour ago, Selwyn said:

No that's the standard bomb bay door showing the position of the attachment points for the  WE177 carriers. if you look at the drawing it also shows the 1000lb bomb mounting points. 

 

Referring to these images,

On 10/5/2019 at 11:09 AM, canberra kid said:

More bomb stuff,

spacer.png

 

 

 

XN977 1976

img008 (1)

 

and the second image down in this link,

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=394.90

Edited by 71chally
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19 minutes ago, 71chally said:

 

Referring to these images,

 

XN977 1976

img008 (1)

 

and the second image down in this link,

https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=394.90

See below  fig 1 "Bomb Door tank construction" it shows  the  inner side attachment points for the  WE177 carriers. if you look at the drawing it also shows the 1000lb bomb mounting points to each side of them.  The image above also shows the rear 1000lb carrier attachment points. It appears that the front fairing attached to the  the photoflash  points at the front of the bomb bay. there are also both  fairing attachment points shown on the drawing.

 

r7vHIJ.jpg

 

Selwyn

(Just draining a bottle of Newcastle brown!)

Edited by Selwyn
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I think there has been a bit of misunderstanding of terminology on these posts.

Be it the FAA flat bomb door or the RAF bulged door, there was only one door type for all roles. As shown on the AP diagrams, within the bomb door roof were the attachment points  for 1,000lb bombs on stn's 5,6,7 & 8. Then side by side in the middle are stn's 9 & 10 for WE177.

A complete bomb door change was a major task, way too big for a role change. The riggers and sooties would be gathered in the corner of the hangar sobbing! There was enough swearing on a change to tanker fit and shoehorning a bomb bay fuel tank in.

 

For WE177 carriage there were front and rear fairings added. These most likely were attached to the flash crate and photo crate points (need a rigger to confirm). Their purpose was to smooth the airflow through the bomb bay and aid weapon separation.

Why it was considered to be needed for WE177, but not needed for 1,000lb bombs, who knows?!

 

The special weapons carriers were longer in length than the 1,000lb carriers. They had a 115 ERU and a BRSL (bomb release safety lock) taking up more space. The regular 1,000lb carrier just had a No2 Mk 1 ERU.

spacer.png

Sorry about the quality. It's a scan of a poor photocopy from my old Q course notes.

 

Rob.

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The new Airfix kit recommends Humbrol 165 Medium Sea Grey for the cockpit interior and Humbrol 196 Light Grey for the inside of the undercarriage bays, etc.  However Modeldecal sheet 57 states that, for FAA Buccaneers in the same timeframe, the cockpit interiors were in BS381C: 632 Dark Admiralty Grey and the undercarriage bays, inside of air brakes, etc in BS381C: 697, a semi-gloss light blue-grey.  Aeroguide 30 Buccaneer agrees.    Xtracolor do Dark Admiralty Grey as X401: it is a rather darker shade than Medium Sea Grey.  

 

1.  Who is right, Airfix or Modeldecal/Aeroguide?

2.  Is there an out-of-the-tin match for BS 697 in either the Humbrol or Xtracolor range?  I vaguely recall that there used to be one but it may be one of the colours now discontinued.  Happy to be told Humbrol 196 is just perfect as a match but my confidence in Airfix's colour call-outs needs restoring after being a little shaken by the cockpit colour discrepancy.

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Airfix will only quote Humbrol numbers, regardless of whether this is a good match or a poor one.  Sometimes it is a good match, but frankly I'd use independent references as an alternative unless proven dodgy themselves.  I would certainly prefer Modeldecal.

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Ta da...

 

Colourcoats NARN51 (ex-M23) - Royal Navy Light Admiralty Grey (BS381C-697)

 

M23rgb_1024x1024.jpg?v=1571438802

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/royal-navy/products/colourcoats-narn51-m23-royal-navy-light-admiralty-grey-bs381c-697

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Thanks, Jamie.  Even allowing for the vagaries of monitors, etc, at least I have a much better idea of the colour now.  It's considerably bluer and maybe a bit darker than my tin of Humbrol 196, which is more like Light Aircraft Grey.  Alas, it's not one of the Colourcoats paints I own.  Feel sure I have a tin of something somewhere that matches it.

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