Robertone139 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Howdy, looking for reference and possibly the correct markings for the Norwegian P-3 involved with the collision over the Barents Sea back in 1987. I already have the Su-27 markings in a Begemot sheet. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I have a hardcopy magazine article on this incident from circa 1990 that included a couple of photos of the P-3B. IIRC it was in the "low viz" version of the dark gray scheme - with smaller national insignia and markings. I don't know of any aftermarket decals for that version, but there is an old Micro/Superscale sheet for the "high viz" scheme that would share some basic data stencilling. https://modelingmadness.com/scott/decals/super/ss72435.htm This article includes a painting that gives some impression of the low-viz Orion markings and provides the serial and the BuNo: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/that-time-a-soviet-su-27-flanker-collided-with-a-norwegian-p-3-orion-over-the-barents-sea/ Airliners.net only has one photo of that airframe, dated 1978, but it appears to have been in the same scheme then: Airliners.net photo link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 As an aside, it is generally considered that the Su-27's NATO reporting name of 'Flanker' derives from a mishearing of a description of the Soviet pilot used by the P-3's crew. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Haha. Sorry, but the codename was in use before the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 hours ago, CT7567 said: I have a hardcopy magazine article on this incident from circa 1990 that included a couple of photos of the P-3B. IIRC it was in the "low viz" version of the dark gray scheme - with smaller national insignia and markings. I don't know of any aftermarket decals for that version, but there is an old Micro/Superscale sheet for the "high viz" scheme that would share some basic data stencilling. https://modelingmadness.com/scott/decals/super/ss72435.htm This article includes a painting that gives some impression of the low-viz Orion markings and provides the serial and the BuNo: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/that-time-a-soviet-su-27-flanker-collided-with-a-norwegian-p-3-orion-over-the-barents-sea/ Airliners.net only has one photo of that airframe, dated 1978, but it appears to have been in the same scheme then: Airliners.net photo link Thanks, Good stuff, any idea of what could be a close FS#? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 39 minutes ago, Robertone139 said: Thanks, Good stuff, any idea of what could be a close FS#? Nothing precise. The photos in the article I have are either black & white or poorly lit (inside a hangar). If you read through the decal review article linked above, the author indicates he had seen the Norwegian aircraft in person and disputes some of Microscale's callouts. His recommendation is Extra Dark Sea Gray, which faded to a color closer to FS36118. I don't have anything to confirm the above info, but that's at least the right ballpark (if they were painted to US standards I would suggest FS36076 or 36081 as the baseline; for the record, the photos I have don't seem to show significant fading/weathering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 Yes, I figured that was the ballpark, it seems however to be a gloss finish paint. Whichever of those colors has a bluish tint gets the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 14 hours ago, Robertone139 said: Thanks, Good stuff, any idea of what could be a close FS#? The Norwegian P-3Bs were originally painted Dark Sea Grey. This might have changed to a close FS colour by 1987, possibly 16251. I will check with my copy of the RNoAF T.O. when I get home. Nils 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 17 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Haha. Sorry, but the codename was in use before the incident. 12 hours ago, Jordi said: Flanker was just the next available fighter name on the NATO Air Standards Coordinating Committee's list. The list was drawn up in the early 1950s and is still in use today. Well aware of all that, but I don't always let the facts get in the way of a good story. By the way, Jordi, the Air Standards Coordinating Committee was never a NATO body, but was established in 1948 by the RAF, USAAF and RCAF. The US Navy, RAAF and RNZAF later joined the ASCC. It was later renamed the Air and Space Interoperability Council and in 2017 was reconstituted by the Five Eyes Air Force Interoperability Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Which is why so many "good stories" have muddied history and hidden the facts for years, and still do. Spitfires buried in crates under a runway in Burma, anyone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 18 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said: As an aside, it is generally considered that the Su-27's NATO reporting name of 'Flanker' derives from a mishearing of a description of the Soviet pilot used by the P-3's crew. Ah, yes. "Flunker", wasn't it? 😎 Cheers, Andrd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Having checked the T.O., it refers to the colour name "Dark Sea Grey" and a couple of not well known reference numbers. But no FS number. Nils 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Vingtor said: Having checked the T.O., it refers to the colour name "Dark Sea Grey" and a couple of not well known reference numbers. But no FS number. Nils Thank you Mr. Vingtor, would you be able to also know whether the original P-3Bs also had individual names below the cockpit windows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Vingtor said: Having checked the T.O., it refers to the colour name "Dark Sea Grey" and a couple of not well known reference numbers. But no FS number. Nils This obviously supersedes my notes above. Checking the article I referenced and reviewing other photos of Norwegian P-3Bs from that timeframe, I have no reason to doubt Dark Sea Gray is the correct color. @Robertone139 if you need an FS595 reference, there isn't a precise equivalent. FS36173 is generally considered the closest match, but it is noticeably warmer (in the same light - as with most neutral colors, appearnce of the gray can change significantly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Good morning all, Were the Norwegian P-3Bs originally delivered in overall "Dark Sea Grey" and later painted with a darker blue gray? In some photos (late 1970s, early 1980s, with small national insignia and no squadron codes) the aircraft look like they were painted with British "Extra Dark Sea Grey". I read an article written by members of IPMS Norway and the authors stated that originally Sikkens paints were used to match Dark Sea Grey and that the colour was FS36118 (Tank Grey?). I painted my P-3B (KK-M) with Humbrol 125 with white squadron codes. Cheers, Antti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 16 hours ago, Antti_K said: Good morning all, Were the Norwegian P-3Bs originally delivered in overall "Dark Sea Grey" and later painted with a darker blue gray? In some photos (late 1970s, early 1980s, with small national insignia and no squadron codes) the aircraft look like they were painted with British "Extra Dark Sea Grey". I read an article written by members of IPMS Norway and the authors stated that originally Sikkens paints were used to match Dark Sea Grey and that the colour was FS36118 (Tank Grey?). I painted my P-3B (KK-M) with Humbrol 125 with white squadron codes. Cheers, Antti I hope Nils @Vingtor can weigh in with additional information on this question - such as any date included on the technical order he referenced. It's a pretty widely known fact that EDSG and DSG are frequently confused for one another (pull up just about any thread on the RAF Shackleton for example). I think this has mainly to do with varied lighting, compounded by the "neutral" gray reflecting varied background hues (sea/sky/ground/etc), compounded by some degree of weathering and the usual suspects of questionable color fidelity in print or online. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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