PeterB Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) Just a placeholder for the moment, but if I have time I might be able to build this. Both the F9F-2 and the F9F-3 entered service in 1949 I believe - the only difference between them being the engines used. Edited October 11, 2019 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I'm sure this thread will become an eventuality Peter so will pre-empt some good modelling vibes for you and add it to this GB's build list! Although and old-ish kit, I've seen good models built from this Hasegawa kit. Cheers and best of luck.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 Hi Dave, I built Hasegawa's Panther, Cougar, and Tiger back in the late 1970's and they are nice enough kits. I think I also have the Matchbox version of the F9F-5 somewhere but can't find it at the moment so I have bought a "new" Panther which arrived today. In view of the anticipated problems with the Meatbox, I might make a start on the Panther fairly soon. It should make a nice comparison with the Banshee and highlight the initial problems with US jet engine development. Pete 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Well the kit has arrived. If you don't count the Frog reboxes I suppose the first Hasegawa kits I saw were in a model shop in Chester in around 1974. For some reason they only had the smaller kits - Sabre, Heinkel 51, Fuji T-1 and the like. A couple of years later I was working in Ellesmere Port and a model shop there had a few Hasegawa kits including the Delta Dagger, Delta Dart and Intruder, and shortly after that I managed to pick up a Hasegawa catalogue which filled me with a desire to get more of their kits The opportunity came in 1977 when I was in London, and came back with a suitcase full of plastic bought at Beatties in High Holborn (I think). Amongst the kits I bought were the Grumman Panther, Cougar, and I though the F-11 Tiger but Scalemates say that was not released until several years later. There was also a Raiden, Shiden-Kai and a Ki-51 together with a few 1/700 scale waterline ships so my wife to be knew what she was letting herself in for! This is a later boxing with markings for one in Blue and one in Grey/White - I seem to remember that the original one had 2 blue versions - one perhaps Blue Angels. On the subject of Sea Blue, I had always assumed that there was just one shade of this, though I was aware that the wartime "3 colours" scheme used Non Specular (matt) Sea Blue on the wings and stabs and Glossy Sea Blue on the fuselage sides above the Intermediate Blue. However I recently came across a post from Jamie of Sovereign Hobbies who said there were 3 different shades with the matt and gloss versions not being quite the same and the post war version being different again. In fact, in his Colour Coats paint range he has actually got a satin version as well, though whether or that is yet another shade or just a different finish I don't know! As my Cougar is in the later grey/white scheme I will paint this one blue, though it will not be perhaps the exact shade it should. As it will be strictly OOB this should be a quick build so I may start it very soon - I anticipate the Meteor to be a bit slow due to the lack of locating pins etc and the rather complicated undercarriage. Edited October 16, 2019 by PeterB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I've always liked these early Hasegawa kits and still think the Panther (and most definitely Cougar) still hold there own in today's modelling market. With the wealth of new kits coming out we do tend to forget these old kits however that just tends to make some of them quite cheap and easy to procure (I did say some kits!). I can't quite remember what Detail and Scale say about this kit, however do think it was fairly accurate as things go. I've been after the Revell edition of Matchboxes' F9F-5 kit for a little while, mainly for the Blue Angles decals that come within this box. Hopefully one will pop up for a few sheckles one of these days. Cheers and all the best with this one Peter.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) Hi Dave, D&S have a few minor niggles about the Panther but their only major complaint is that the nose is not quite the correct shape. There are resin replacements available but I am not going to bother. They can't find anything wrong with the Cougar other than the instructions! Incidentally they say the Matchbox kit is both the -4 and the -5 so unless they have included the modified tail section one of them will be wrong. Pete Edited October 16, 2019 by PeterB 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 hours ago, PeterB said: Hi Dave, D&S have a few minor niggles about the Panther but their only major complaint is that the nose is not quite the correct shape. There are resin replacements available but I am not going to bother. They can't find anything wrong with the Cougar other than the instructions! Incidentally they say the Matchbox kit is both the -4 and the -5 so unlesws they hve included the modified tail section one of them will be wrong. Pete ? The -2 and -3 were essentially identical externally; the designations were for being powered by the P&W and Allison engines respectively. Same for the -4 and -5 being essentially identical, only in that case is was the Allison and P&W engines respectively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 Knew about the engines but misread the bit about the tail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Many years ago when the Sheffield branch did a Korean War theme for the UK IPMS Nationals, I built a couple and remember them being very nice kits. The surface detail was good for the period and the kit went together well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The Matchbox 1/72 F9F-4/5 has an incorrect juncture between the vertical fin and the aft fuselage but it's easily fixed. See https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html The overly wide/deep panel lines and the canopy are also off-putting but the built model with the aft fuselage correction doesn't look all that bad even so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) Oh what the heck - I had to order some decs for another project so I have bought a new nose set as well - should arrive Saturday. If I ever find my Matchbox Panther your link will be most useful TT. Can you confirm the colour of the wheel bays and door insides - Hasegawa say mix 70% Sea Blue with 30% Sky Blue? Edited October 18, 2019 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) I have made a start by painting, decalling and assembling the cockpit, and wings. I have also cut off the mounting for the kit nose so I can fit my "accurate" resin one. The instructions say to add 3g of nose ballast but as the resin nose weighs quite a bit I have only added about 2g. I have painted and added the jetpipe as well and now I will glue the fuselage together - dry run below. Looks like it should be a good fit but then it is Hasegawa so that is not unusual. The decals could prove to be a problem as the ones for the instruments took ages to soak off the backing paper - fingers crossed. The instructions for this much later rebox say that the wheel wells, doors and legs were painted a lighter blue than the plane itself, but I have looked at the original instructions and they said normal sea blue. Some preserved planes have silver wheel legs and centres. Not sure which is right so it would be helpful if any USN specialists out there might like to let me have their thoughts before I start painting them! Edited November 1, 2019 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I think I would go with natural metal, white or light grey. The navy was always big on spotting leaks fast particularly flammable hydraulic fluid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) The legs etc were almost certainly white on the grey over white scheme planes but remember this was in 1950 or thereabouts so blue doors and wells seem to have been in use then according to the pics in Detail and Scale - what I cannot tell is if they were glossy sea blue, or a 70/30 mix with a lighter blue as the instructions suggest. Can't quite see why they would want the hassle of another colour. Legs may well end up in dural. Good point about the hydraulic fluid - I believe they dyed it red to show up on white undersurfaces (Coonts - Flight of the Intruder et al). Incidentally the instructions also say use the mixed blue in the air brake well - I guess this plane pre-dates the use of red for that and also the edges of the doors as on later machines - presumably to present deck crew walking into them in the confined space on carriers? Pete Edited November 1, 2019 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Blue Panthers? I think the way to bet is the same blue for the landing gear struts and green zinc chromate wheel wells. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Thanks - makes more sense to me perhaps than a lighter blue. Pity the preserved ones may not be entirely reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebra Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 +1 from me for sea blue struts and green zinc chromate wells - when I was researching colours for a Cougar last year these kept coming up as colours for Sea Blue aircraft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) D & S say chromate for the wells and certain of their pics confirm this on some planes but others are a much darker colour, and walkrounds generally seem to show blue. Main legs and wheels are blue in most cases but the nose strut is silver in one and white in another, so it seems a case of take your pick! I suspect the preserved one with white legs was repainted blue having been grey/white at some point. This highlights the problem with preserved planes - they often were modified in later service and when restored they are not always accurate. The early war Spitfires are a case in point as most of them lingered on for some time, perhaps as trainers, and picked up MkV canopies and exhausts, and in some cases larger wheels. The MkIX also had changes to the undercarriage/wheels in late war service, resulting in bulges on the upper surface of the wing that were retained on preserved examples and copied by kit manufacturers. According to various threads here on BM, the Spit was apparently designed to operate from grass strips, but increasingly operated from hard surfaces so the leg geometry was changed and the need for better brakes resulted in larger wheels and tyres, and progressively larger bulges, all of which were often retro-fitted. I have done the wells on my Banshee in blue so I might do those on the Panther in chromate for a change, though I have just found a walkround that does indeed seem to show the lighter blue mentioned in the kit instructions! Thanks for your help guys. Edited November 2, 2019 by PeterB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Hi Pete, In catch-up mode as usual and actually I'm a bit off an interloper here as I'm not actually in this GB. I couldn't find anything I wanted to build from 1955, and anyway I needed to complete the 1/72 Airfix Spit XIX I started before the FROG extravaganza! The Grummen Panther is a great choice! Neil Armstrong flew, fought and bailed out of one during the Korean War. I've been thinking about getting one of these so I'll be interested in following your build. On 10/15/2019 at 5:48 PM, PeterB said: As it will be strictly OOB I'm sure I spotted a resin nose up there somewhere! Best wishes, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Well spotted Charlie - as you should know by now I nearly always say I intend to build OOB but then I rarely do. Frankly, other than the cannon in the kit nose being a bit long I can't see much difference but D&S insist is is the wrong shape - centreline a bit high I think so tricky to re-shape. That said, both the Banshee and Meteor F8 are OOB (other than the Banshee's decs) and the only mod on this is the nose, but then they have more interior detail than the Frog kits, not to mention boxed in wheel wells! Both the USN jets are pretty cheap second hand and go together well so if you want a nice quick build these will do nicely - lot less stress than the Frog ones we built! Cheers Pete 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) As we have come to expect with most Hasegawa kits, the parts fit together pretty well so far with only a minimum of filler required. The only exception was the wing root air intakes which are moulded seperately to get the "boxed in" effect - they were too thick compared with the leading edge of the wing and had to be filed down quite a bit. I don't seem to have had that problem on my original 1979's kit so perhaps the moulds were showing their age by the time the current one was produced 20+ years later. Now I need to add the resin nose and fill that. Once the filler is dry I will rub it down and then think about priming. I will leave the horizontal stabs off for the moment as I intend to paint them before fitting - it should be easier to get a straight dural leading edge that way. Edited November 3, 2019 by PeterB 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailspin Turtle Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 My latest post on wheel well and landing gear color: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2019/11/wheel-wells.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) Thanks TT - that is very interesting. So Sea Blue, lighter blue or Chromate green are all possible, and the air brake well could be red. Hasegawa also show a white "T" shaped band on the underside of the air brakes which is seen on some but by no means all of the pics in the Detail and Scale book. I presume that was a warning for deck crew to avoid banging intio lowered brakes, later replaced by red edges? OK I see in one of your links it was probably to make it easy to see if the doors etc were not closed. Pete Edited November 3, 2019 by PeterB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I'm in catch-up mode as well Pete, apologies however work's been a little busy of late (737 Pickle Forks) and I wasted a hot sunny day with a good mate who has been badgering me to go out with him for an R/C jet day. Actually, there was a rather nice large F9F(?) Panther in USMC markings on display that looked very nice and had lots of detail included. I was most impressed, it flew like a bat outa hell as well! Cheers.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) Hi TT, Can I pick your brains? I notice that in the film version of "The Bridges at Toko-Ri" the Panthers have the inner wing over the intakes painted silver/dural from front to back - I have seen the same scheme on a few of the early blue Cougars as well. Do you happen to know when this scheme variation was introduced and if there was a particular reason for it as it does rather compromise the camo scheme? I assume it was due to paint wear as with the leading edges? Incidentally that is a very useful website. Pete Edited November 4, 2019 by PeterB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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