SCW: RWD 13 and Gonzalez Gil Pazo? - photos from a Polish forum

[JWM]

Hi,

I 've bumped on interesting photo pf two airplanes form SCW:

The upper wing machine 30-2 is RWD 13, but the second one - is it Gonzales Gil Pazo GP 4? Looks like having still Republican markings (?)

 

BTW - Photos are from very interesting forum on Polish pre-war Polish airplanes (difficult to browse, it is in 34 threads amond hundreds on other subjects, all in Polish).

Here is thread 22 https://forum.odkrywca.pl/topic/719429-zdjęcie-naszego-samolotu---część-22/page/2/#comments

In sparate parts you may find a lot of destroyed machines from 1939, phootos done by Germans - in context of ne Polish models of Arma Hobby and IBG it is a vast reservoir of photos...

Regards

J-W

 

 

[Graham Boak]

I don't know the type you name, but it looks as though Miles should sue them for copying the Falcon.  

 

I've found a photo of the GP-4 in Nationalist hands, and I'd say not.  It doesn't have the same second transparency, just a small side window, and the windscreen is different.  Methinks the photo is of a Miles type, although I'm not sure just which one.  It may be possible to identify it in one of Peter Amos's monster tomes on Miles aircraft, but I haven't the strength tonight.  Of the known Miles aircraft to have been in Republican hands, the Falcon Major might fit, but the same comment about the rear canopy applies.

 

I have the wicked thought that the photo in Putnam's Aircraft of the Spanish Civil War might really be a Falcon, making this photo the real GP-4.  Surely not?

Edited October 6, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Graham Boak]

There were two Falcons in  the SCW.  Plus another which left the register in 1936, which is always suspicious in these circumstances.   Interestingly (I thought) this one had a second transparency but an early windscreen - not one of the "reverse slope" ones commonly used on the Falcon nor the clear almost semi-spherical ones seen on a few - like this one.   Looking at the photo above again I don't think that is a second transparency but a continuation of the lighter camouflage.  The windscreen appears to be set well back  from the leading edge, unlike the profile below it of the GP-4.  I'm all the more convinced this is a Falcon, one of the two known to have been used in Spain.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Graham Boak

[JWM]

Thank you, but I am fomiliar with Falcon in Spain, I even scratch converted Frog Magister to such Falcon aome ten years ago:

 

I googled now with a bit more luck and found another photo "my" machine, it is here

what is behind is likely RWD 13 so it looks like the same moment photo,  It is described and GP-2. The photo comes from Russian page http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/gp2.html . Here the Republican colours are obvious.

More is here

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/gil-pazó-pazó-aircraft.23653/

All drawings are different , BTW :(

The code is said (in link above) as EG-042, i cannot see thatfrom this quality figure. I would like to scratch it, but no shape is sure....

Anyway, it is "broadly comparable" to Miles Falcon, like Su 24 to F 111

Regards

J-W

 

[Bobk]

This may help a little, it's from Secret Projects forum. A break down of what appears to be all Gil-Pazo aircraft. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/gil-paz%C3%B3-paz%C3%B3-aircraft.23653/

 

[Graham Boak]

The link didn't work for me.  I went to the Secret Projects Forum but a search for Gil-Paz gave no results.

[JWM]

8 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

he link didn't work for me.  I

How about this link?:

 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/gil-pazó-pazó-aircraft.23653/

Cheers

J-W

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Yes thanks.  Although the Gil Paz types all seem to have a more forward cockpit than the equivalent Miles designs, none of them appear to have this unusual open front closed rear.  However it would seem easier to get there from a GP than from a Miles.  I gather the clincher would be a view of the wing..

[Bobk]

if you want a view of the wing you would be hard put to do better than this http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/2012/03/flipando-en-colores.html second photo down.

 

[Bobk]

An answer to the puzzle https://millaerea.es/blog/base.php?marco=./numancia/numancia.php 

"And our friend, the Soriana plane? What happened to her?

When she was hanged at the Barajas airfield, she was confiscated by the Republican army. Being a plane of high autonomy, it became a two-seater and was assigned the license plate EG-042, being used in surveillance and liaison missions. As the national army approached Madrid, it moved to the southern bases of Cordoba or Seville."

[JWM]

Those photos, reveals stending next to them Polikarpov I 15, are very interesting, note upper wing scheme visible in RWD 13

It is confirmed that in link given here

1 hour ago, Bobk said:

An answer to the puzzle https://millaerea.es/blog/base.php?marco=./numancia/numancia.php 

That photos were taken at momenty of capture of those machines (GP 2 and I-15) by Nationalist army as I understood in Barajas airfield (today the main airport of Madrid)

Many thanks @Bobk for links to additional photos!

Cheers

J-W