Mosquito PR Mk. IV questions

[mahavelona]

Hello all,

 

I've been researching the Mosquito PR Mk. IV because I have the 1/48 Revell B Mk.IV kit, which includes parts for the PR Mk. IV.

 

I've got a copy of Martin Bowman's excellent "Mosquito Photo-Reconnaissance Units of World War II". In the book he reports that PR Mk IVs had a fuel tank fitted in the bomb bay. He provides a photo of a similar bomb bay fuel tank in a PR Mk. I but that aircraft's bomb bay is bulged out from the fuselage so it wouldn't be comparable.

 

Question 1: Does anybody know what the bomb bay fuel tank in the Mosquito PR Mk. IV looked like?

If possible I'd like to scratch build one and display the bomb bay open!
 

Onto the topic of markings. I've found two schemes, shown in the spoiler. Both have two-colour roundels on the fuselage. 

 

However, Bowman's book includes the following photo - where we can see a PR Mk. IV with a 4 colour roundel on the fuselage. I imagine this plane is wraparound PRU blue...

 

Question 2: Does anybody know anything about this photo and the markings (codes etc.) or squadron of the aircraft in it?

 

 

thanks!

Edited October 5, 2019 by mahavelona

[Seahawk]

I notice that what appears to be the aircraft's serial number appears in the bottom right corner.  Assuming it to be correct, someone with access to the Air Britain HA-HZ volume should be able to tell you a. whether it really is a PR.IV and b. which squadrons it served with.  I'd do it myself but am away from my references at the moment.

[Ossington 2]

Ta Da! On page 58: One of 137 Mosquito XIII's delivered between Sept 43 and Jan 44.  Served with 29 Sqn, then 51 OTU. To 4857M. No dated given.

Block commences with HK363 and ends HK534 if you want to compare against similar machines.

[mahavelona]

Hi both. Thanks for the swift reply. I'm not sure about the code on the photo. The code is absent from the book, where mosquito is labelled as a PR Mk. IV and Bowman points out the features of that variant on the photo. I found that copy of the photo, with the code, online, on a Chinese website! I only posted that copy as it was already online. 

[Graham Boak]

There appears to be a low demarcation between upper and lower surfaces, with the lower possibly PRUB and the upper Medium Sea Grey?

[Jackson Duvalier]

Are we sure "HK416" isn't an internet handle?  Perhaps related to the Heckler and Koch AR-15 assault rifle clone?

[72modeler]

For what it's worth, I found a listing for HK416 on the WW2 Foundation website that states it was an NFXIII that was reserialled 4857M as an instructional airframe with 29/51 OTU, if that information is indeed correct, than that might not be the serial of the Mosquito in the photo posted.  I recall reading somewhere that the NFXIII was developed from the BMk IV, so there is the possibility that the Mossie in the photo was HK416 before the conversion, or were the NFXIII's all purpose-built as such? I'm no Mosquito authority, so hopefully one of our resident Mossie Masters can elucidate further? Best I can do from my reference library. I'm afraid.

Mike

[Seahawk]

4 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

Are we sure "HK416" isn't an internet handle?  Perhaps related to the Heckler and Koch AR-15 assault rifle clone?

Well, as the person who started that hare running, I'm not.  Please ignore my red herring.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Seahawk

[Dana Bell]

Hi gents,

 

There's no way we're looking at a Mk.XIII - the 13s were night fighters - this photo shows a bomber/PR aircraft.

 

I think the "demarcation" we're all seeing is a shadow cast by the sun which seems to be around the photo's 2:30 position.  Since we're not seeing any of the normal Mk.IV camouflage at the fuselage side, I suspect this really is an overall PRU Blue aircraft.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

 

[Dana Bell]

Looks like we're all chiming in at once...

 

Mike, the NF.XIII was developed from the FB.VI.  It had the 20mm guns, flat windscreen, and heavier wing with provisions for wing tanks.  

 

BTW, might the "HK" be something as simple as Hong Kong?

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

[72modeler]

33 minutes ago, Dana Bell said:

Looks like we're all chiming in at once...

 

Mike, the NF.XIII was developed from the FB.VI.  It had the 20mm guns, flat windscreen, and heavier wing with provisions for wing tanks.  

 

BTW, might the "HK" be something as simple as Hong Kong?

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Yep- damn these tired old eyes! I misread the reference I consulted! Thanks for correcting me, Dana! Guess I need to update to the Mk 1a (special) eyeballs! BTW, how's the next colors book coming along? Good to hear from you again!

Mike

[Sky dancer]

Hi folks,

 

I very strongly suspect that the tag @Griffin-HK416 is absolutely nothing to do with any Mosquito.

 

The Griffin features very strongly in the urban legend/myth status of theU.S. Navy SEAL teams, and is said to be the unofficial patch/badge of SEAL Team 6 (or DEVGRU, or whatever they call themselves now). SEAL Team 6/DEVGRU were the team that took part in Operation Neptune Spear that led to the shooting of Osama Bin-Laden. The Heckler & Koch HK416 was the weapon used to shoot him.

 

There are a very large number of blogs etc. (particularly in the Far East) that seem absolutely obsessed with SEAL Team 6/DEVGRU and the HK416 - google it and you will see any number of young male wannabes strutting around having spent seemingly a very large amount of money on tactical gear and replica HK416's.......

 

Of course, we could always ask the guy himself......

Edited October 5, 2019 by Sky dancer
Got the name of the Op wrong!

[Grey Beema]

My WIP interpretation of HK422 29 Sqn RAF June '44.

 

 

Although adapted from the MkVI, I think the early MkXIII were likely to have been initially built as MkXII or NFIIs but I am not expert so could well be a mile out...

 

Does the picture above have the extra air intake under the spinner of the higher powered Merlin?

[Graham Boak]

The night fighters tended to run in pairs, some based on (perhaps even converted from) Mk.IIs with no wing carriage, and the others based on Mk.VIs with tanks underwing.  So the Mk.XIIs would not have been converted to Mk.XIIIs as that would require a new wing.  But there were two different standards of Mk.XIIIs, those with the thimble radome as on your kit and those with the bull nose to allow carriage of the US radar.

[Grey Beema]

Change to universal nose was c.HK500 I think..  Which means that HK413 would have had the thimble nose MkXIII.  I really don't think the aircraft in the picture above With its glass nose is HK413.

[mahavelona]

 

16 hours ago, Dana Bell said:

Hi gents,

 

There's no way we're looking at a Mk.XIII - the 13s were night fighters - this photo shows a bomber/PR aircraft.

 

I think the "demarcation" we're all seeing is a shadow cast by the sun which seems to be around the photo's 2:30 position.  Since we're not seeing any of the normal Mk.IV camouflage at the fuselage side, I suspect this really is an overall PRU Blue aircraft.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

 

I like your theory about the shadow. It explains why i can't see the camo upperside on the fuselage even though I can see the demarcation on the nose. 

16 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Well, as the person who started that hare running, I'm not.  Please ignore my red herring.

Haha I should really have mentioned where I got this copy of the photo! I'm convinced the code is unrelated to the plane; this Chinese blog was the only place on the internet which hosts a copy of this picture which I've seen in a book. As has been said the plane is not a night fighter and has all the features of a PR Mk. IV - glass nose, early engines without the extra intake, camera arrangement, flush bomb bay.

 

Question: does anybody else notice the colour of the spinners? A new shade? 

A tad darker, perhaps red, dark blue or green?

 

And does anybody have any thoughts about the bomb bay fuel tank?

 

[Dave Swindell]

On 05/10/2019 at 10:00, mahavelona said:

Question 2: Does anybody know anything about this photo and the markings (codes etc.) or squadron of the aircraft in it?

Despite being captioned as a PR.IV by Bowman, I suspect this is a standard production B.IV series II with high demarcation Dark Green/Ocean Grey uppers over Medium Sea Grey lowers, and Ocean Grey spinners. The fuselage demarkation line isn't evident except for a small telltale section of hard demarkation on the nose. The slightly darker spinners suggest OG/MSG rather than overall PRU Blue as per PR.IV schemes. The type C roundel would also suggest bomber rather than PR, which typically wore the type B on the fuselage.

The B.IV had a provision to carry cameras in the bomb bay and rear fuselage (camera windows and mounts), this photo shows B.IV DZ367 GB*J of 105sqn in the camouflage scheme noted above banking away from the camera - without squadron codes and banked a little more it would present as the above photo does. Note this photo is also mis-identified as a PR.IV, but 105 Sqn was a bomber squadron.

On 05/10/2019 at 10:00, mahavelona said:

Question 1: Does anybody know what the bomb bay fuel tank in the Mosquito PR Mk. IV looked like?

The SAM Datafile on the Mosquito has a diagram from the AP showing the extra bomb bay tanks (11 & 12) The diagram shows the installation from above, which isn't too helpful from a modelling point of view. The tanks are a rounded D section, the forward (smaller) tank extends from the front of the front spar approx 3/4 of the distance to the rear spar, the rear larger tank fills the remaining aft section of the bomb bay. The forward section of the bomb bay would be available for cameras located above the windows in the photo above.