P-47D cockpit "Dark Dull Green"

[Smithy]

Hi all,

 

Literally just finished the Hurricane I was working on this afternoon and with the weekend here I'm already anticipating starting work on my next project, the Tamiya razorback P-47D. I haven't modelled that many US aircraft since getting back into the hobby so I am no expert on them but from what I have read, the interiors on P-47s up to the M model  was "Dark Dull Green".

 

Having a look online and period photos from a couple of books I have, this colour doesn't look entirely dissimilar to Humbrol 30.  Do my eyes deceive me? I have a tin of H30 stashed away for some peculiar reason and not wanting to buy another tin of paint, was wanting to ask the USAAF experts whether this can be used as a viable starting point for mixing Dark Dull Green.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Tim

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello Tim

I think Dark Dull Green is closer to FS 34092, available from Model Master, White Ensign and others. However, H30 with a drop of blue will do fine. I have never heard this paint had been used for P-47 D interior, though. Cheers

Jure

[72modeler]

Smithy,

 

As Jure has posted, FS34092 is a  pretty close match to the P-47 cockpit color. Humbrol H75, bronze green, is also a very close match to dull dark green, if you have it or can find it. There is a definite bluish cast to the paint- almost like an IJN exterior color! The Yanks Air Museum has a very rare P-47M prototype that they restored- the wheel bays and gear door inner surfaces should have been finished with untinted zinc chromate, but the paint they used looks fairly close to the dull dark green that Republic used. As always, you can't use a restored airplane much of the time for color references. The second link is to an unrestored P-47D-30 that is part of the NASM collection- not the best photos, but you can see the bluish-green cast to the dull dark green cockpit paint. Hope this helps get you in the ballpark.

Mike

 

https://yanksair.org/collection/republic-xp-47m-thunderbolt/

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/republic-p-47d-30-ra-thunderbolt

[Seahawk]

1 hour ago, Jure Miljevic said:

I think Dark Dull Green is closer to FS 34092, available from Model Master, White Ensign and others. However, H30 with a drop of blue will do fine.

Or Humbrol 149 FS 34092 straight from the pot. 

[Crankycraftsman]

Very early P-47's had bronze green interiors, but since bronze green had a shiny finish they determined that it was not suitable for cockpits and switched to dull dark green. The interior of the plane other then the cockpit was done in untinted zink chromate which was a yellow color the wheel wells were zink chromate yellow also, and the inside if the cowling was aluminum.

Ron G 

[Space Ranger]

I would use H30 just as it is. In the confines of the cockpit I doubt anyone is going to be able to tell the difference. And I won't tell anybody!

[Smithy]

Thanks guys. I really don't want to buy another tin so I'll pass on the 149  and 75 suggestions for now.

 

I got my tin of 30 out and gave it a good old stir and it really doesn't seem terribly far removed from what Dark Dull Green appears in the photos I have and from various photos on the web. It definitely has a bluish tinge already (I can remember that I used it for my first RAF build back to the hobby in 2001 and wasn't impressed with that!) so I think with a little tweaking it should be passable especially after some washes and weathering. Be nice if I can finally find a use for the colour!

 

Thanks for the links as well 72, much appreciated.

[dogsbody]

And just who is going to be looking into a 1/72 scale cockpit and be able to tell you that the colour isn't the exact shade of dark green? If you can find one, I have two, old, one-syllable Anglo-Saxon words for that person.

 

 

 

Chris

[Smithy]

1 minute ago, dogsbody said:

And just who is going to be looking into a 1/72 scale cockpit and be able to tell you that the colour isn't the exact shade of dark green? If you can find one, I have two, old, one-syllable Anglo-Saxon words for that person.

 

 

 

Chris

 

I wouldn't worry too much if it was 1/72 with the lid buttoned up but this one is the 1/48 Tamiya Jug which I'm planning to have the canopy open so I am thinking a little more about it than I usually would.

 

I'm not going to fuss too much about it though. The more I look at that H30 I've brushed on some scrap plastic, the more I think it's definitely workable. Smidge of blue like Jure says to bring it out a touch more and I think it'll work, good enough for how I build anyway!

[Jackson Duvalier]

After some years of resistance, I've come to feel that Tamiya's recommendation for XF-5 isn't that far off that mark, especially if used as an airbrushed highlight over a darker, possibly bluish green.  I saw XF-11 IJN green bandied about somewhere on the internet recently but a rummage through my Tamiya paint accumulation turned up none so I can't confirm.  My last P-47 used whatever Gunze's "FS34092" is, I can't give you the product number as the label has mostly torn off.

[Space Ranger]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

 

I wouldn't worry too much if it was 1/72 with the lid buttoned up but this one is the 1/48 Tamiya Jug which I'm planning to have the canopy open so I am thinking a little more about it than I usually would.

 

I'm not going to fuss too much about it though. The more I look at that H30 I've brushed on some scrap plastic, the more I think it's definitely workable. Smidge of blue like Jure says to bring it out a touch more and I think it'll work, good enough for how I build anyway!

You might also consider a wash of extremely thin transparent blue (Tamiya X23) over the H30 to give it a bluish cast.

[dogsbody]

Oops! My bad. I don't know where I got the idea it was 1/72. I blame my old age and my mis-spent 20's.

 

 

Chris

[JPuente54]

Jamie at Sovreign Hobbies(apologize for all possible mis-spellings) has Dull Dark Green in his Colourcoats line of paints IIRC. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies should notify him. Good luck! Edit added, Jamie has Bronze Green in his line as well.

Joe

Edited October 6, 2019 by JPuente54
Add a bit more

[Crankycraftsman]

Yes, but bronze green was almost glossy.

[72modeler]

16 hours ago, Crankycraftsman said:

Yes, but bronze green was almost glossy.

Yep- that might have been one reason why it was replaced by dull dark green in cockpits and manned interior spaces; see the link below to an excellent article by IPMS Stockholm that I'm sure many of you have saved, for some discussion on the use of bronze green.

Mike

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

[Crankycraftsman]

Have that one bookmarked 

[Smithy]

Thought I'd just follow this up for those who may still be interested.

 

I've started work on my P-47D and actually just went ahead with the painting the interior based entirely on the following photo of a 371st FG Jug...

 

 

 

I decided to use Humbrol 30 straight from the tin and it has turned out to be a virtually perfect match to what you can see in the photo of the interior colour. I'm happy with the colour interpretation from the photo and think it is very true to life due to the fact that I collect WWII flying clothing and kit and the pilot is wearing a B-10 flight jacket. I have two B-10s and both their colours are a near perfect match to the B-10 being worn in the photo.

 

Finally found something to use Humbrol 30 for!

Edited October 11, 2019 by Smithy
Typo

[72modeler]

10 minutes ago, Smithy said:

Finally found something to use Humbrol 30 for!

Makes perfect sense, Smithy, as the FS595 equivalent for dull dark green is listed in some color guides as being FS34092, which is also the FS595 equivalent listed for Humbrol 30! BTW, in some color guides  the FS595 equivalent for bronze green is FS24092, which would be a semi-gloss version of dull dark green, FS34092, which goes back to the IPMS Stockholm article and Crankycraftsman's posts. IIRC, 34092 is also known as Euro dark green. Let the painting begin!

Mike

[Smithy]

Thanks for that Mike!

 

My initial reaction to that photo was that the colour reproduction seemed very true to life but collecting WWII flying kit meant I have a reference point to an actual object in the photo. I'd been playing around with Humbrol 30 when I started thinking about this project but I have been stunned with how alike to the interior colour of that P-47 in the photo it is. It really is as close to an exact match as you could want.

 

I've started a WIP thread and will post some photos in there over the weekend if we don't go up to the mountain cottage/cabin.

 

In the meantime, if you're after a P-47 interior colour seen on "razorback" crates have a look at Humbrol 30. Hopeless for RAF Dark Green but an exceedingly close match to the colour seen in some wartime "razorbacks".