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1/72 - Boeing 307 Stratoliner by Bat Project - released


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On 10/7/2019 at 7:13 AM, Julien said:

They maybe costly but if the market will take it so be it, if not they will vote with their feet.

 

Maybe you also need to tone down your remarks a little.

 

Julien


I have backed up my initial point comparing their pricing(of the two kits that are available from them) with other niche brands tooling equally obscure subjects so no , I don't believe I need to tone down anything and fully stand by the remark that they are atrociously costly and completely out of touch with market .

Criticism is a cornerstone of free market. Many manufacturers have in past interacted or observed threads here. I hope BAT does the same too . By pointing out their rates and comparing them with other manufacturers , I don't believe I trespassed any lines of forum decency to warrant a "tone down" remark from you . I have more kits from short run manufacturers in my stack than established ones , I know they charge more but I think this company , with its existing products(which at this point is the only yardstick to guess pricing of any future release) , is operating in an imagined market . I hope they read this too . 

Edited by Basuroy
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On 10/6/2019 at 9:00 PM, The Tomohawk Kid said:

 

In the world of scale aircraft modelling civil aviation is a niche, when was the last time Airfix popped a new tool 1/144 civil kit? By my reckoning it was 40 years ago. Given the subject matter this is very much  a niche of a niche kit, particulary in 1/72. It will be priced for the market it can command versus the production costs which  will be extremely limited at a price point which it is yet to be revealed. Will I buy it no, because it does not float my boat - will it be atrociously expensive, not to those who want an injection moulded 1/72 307 Stratoliner. Is the brand out of touch? I have no idea, nor do you.

 

Tommo.

 

 


Half my stack is niche models as I have a natural affinity for anything exotic  . So I am familiar with the special rates a niche obscure model will command like say the recent Dora wings 72nd scale Sm.55 for 45$ .  Another gem in my collection is the now out of product Fly 1/72nd scale caprioni 101 that I got for a mere 20 . Even today , it goes for 30 on ebay .  The valom Dh.91 Albatross is a 40$ kit , 4 engined and exotic airliner  and still priced within range of other 4 engined 72nd scale kits. 

So when I see this company BAT project trying to sell a 72nd scale heinkel biplane for 40$ ( a mere 5 less than the SM.55  ) or a 72nd scale Nieuport 21 for 25$ when the same model from eduard goes for 10$ and from roden for 7$ , yes I would comment that they are out of touch with reality . Neither the heinkel 114 nor the nieuport 21 are niche model or even exotic in the same sense an SM.55 or Boeing stratoliner is  . If that is what they demand for these two , one can only wonder what they expect for a twin engined exotic boeing. It can be either 30-40$ which is the max I would part with or it can be 80 !!!  That only time will tell but considering they have lined up 4 or 5 releases together , maybe they intend to go mass which bodes well for price relatively speaking . 
 

Edited by Basuroy
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I suggest that you look at the prices quoted for other Eastern European resins of small exotic types.  For example Kora sell their Jaktfalk for £42.50 (Hannants price) and that's a lot smaller than an He114.  No-one likes high prices, but BAT appear to be not out of line with what is being sold elsewhere.  Small companies cannot match the production runs and hence lower prices of market leaders.  And getting older kits at reduced prices does not equate to modern production costs.

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58 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

I suggest that you look at the prices quoted for other Eastern European resins of small exotic types.  For example Kora sell their Jaktfalk for £42.50 (Hannants price) and that's a lot smaller than an He114.  No-one likes high prices, but BAT appear to be not out of line with what is being sold elsewhere.  Small companies cannot match the production runs and hence lower prices of market leaders.  And getting older kits at reduced prices does not equate to modern production costs.


Resin and injection are not the same and never priced in same bandwidth . Resin manufacturers like SBS model or chorozy modelbud are all very very pricey kits in 72nd scale  ; even in armor , 72nd resin kits cost same or higher than 35th. I was just going through the brassica 72nd resin catalogue and the Tatra trucks are between 40-60 euro . Even Arma hobby when they made resin kits were priced very very high ; their injection kits are amongst the cheapest and most modern in market today. They transitioned from resin to styrene only 3 years back. Kora's own injection molded kits cost 20-25 euro for single engine ww2 era airplanes.

BAT produces kits in styrene and therefore ought to be compared with other small companies like FLY model or valom offering similar kits  . I got the caprioni kit  barely two years for 20 quids back but if you really insist on cherry picking on that aspect , both the Sm,55 and the valom Albatross are less than 2 years old. If Valom can tool an Albatross and then offer it for the same rate as an Airfix b-17 which will likely outsell it 10 to 1 , then that becomes the industry standard.

 

Edited by Basuroy
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1 hour ago, Basuroy said:


Resin and injection are not the same and never priced in same bandwidth . Resin manufacturers like SBS model or chorozy modelbud are all very very pricey kits in 72nd scale  ; even in armor , 72nd resin kits cost same or higher than 35th. I was just going through the brassica 72nd resin catalogue and the Tatra trucks are between 40-60 euro . Even Arma hobby when they made resin kits were priced very very high ; their injection kits are amongst the cheapest and most modern in market today. They transitioned from resin to styrene only 3 years back. Kora's own injection molded kits cost 20-25 euro for single engine ww2 era airplanes.

BAT produces kits in styrene and therefore ought to be compared with other small companies like FLY model or valom offering similar kits  . I got the caprioni kit  barely two years for 20 quids back but if you really insist on cherry picking on that aspect , both the Sm,55 and the valom Albatross are less than 2 years old. If Valom can tool an Albatross and then offer it for the same rate as an Airfix b-17 which will likely outsell it 10 to 1 , then that becomes the industry standard.

 

Its a niche low volume product that will sell at a higher price there is no conspiracy theory, its just life - comparing different manufacturers and very different business models isn't going to change or prove anything.

 

I suggest rather than trying to convince and debate it with me and others on here. If its a kit you want, wait until the price is confirmed - decide if it is good value, if it fits your budget go for it, if not vote with your wallet.

 

Tommo.

 

 

Edited by The Tomohawk Kid
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Regarding price - I was playing with my Boeing 307 by Maquette for some six weeks. If this kit would be more friendly to work with and it will take only 3 weeks - how much are worth 3 weeks evenings - all free to do something else than Boeing 307? :)

Cheers

J-W

 

 

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Not sure they have any choice. You have to have the two different tails. It's just a tail to stick on to the forward fuselage, it will be fine if they actually use the same cross-section for the mating components! Which I guess is more likely in a CAD world than the olden days

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Not necessarily. Just assemble and align all port fuselage parts neatly together (as well as the starboard ones).

You will then end up with two neat huge fuselage halves to assemble, and You only need to address the longitudinal seam (the easiest one to re-scribe). 

 

This method is also very useful for final adjusting of the fuselage to the canopy width.

Edited by warhawk
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Love it, finally a full options Stratoliner..maybe you have to work on it a little bit I don’t mind...

Looking at the maquette offering this one has a lot more appeal..

I will buy it regarding whatever price as this is a long wait for a decent Strat!

 

cheers, Jan

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On 19/05/2020 at 10:59, Work In Progress said:

Not sure they have any choice. You have to have the two different tails. It's just a tail to stick on to the forward fuselage, it will be fine if they actually use the same cross-section for the mating components! Which I guess is more likely in a CAD world than the olden days

........except that it's made from old-school hand-made patterns as shown at the beginning of the thread.

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On 5/20/2020 at 10:15 AM, sroubos said:

You assume the diameter of the forward fuselage and tail halves match. Somehow I doubt that.

Even if it doesn't - You can always add wedges or sand it along the longitudinal joint line later to get a perfect fit.

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On 5/19/2020 at 8:40 AM, Homebee said:


B307-003-Wing-2-768x725.jpg

Thet is a extremely progress if you compare what you have till now when you want to do model of "307" - the Maquette kit, in which the lenght of fuselage halves is different for 2 mm.... Now I do not know how many filler will be needed to set fuselage, I belive not too much, but  the wings will need a filler to blind the oil cooler exhaust, the upper side of wings should be without them

NX19901.jpg?itok=7ufv0jtG

In early variants (as above) and in later (new fin but old tailplane) as below

ktx7krll6ggfu0xrrwk8.jpg

This was bacause the oil coolers were not hidden in the wings liek in B17s,, but were below the cowlings.

However it looks that at least some had them, maybe those are the 307, who got complete B17 wings after war. Maybe it comes together with B17 tailplane.

Clipping%20color%20SA-307B-1%20NC19908%2

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

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I'm confused :hmmm: There's this first link of the thread that shows some masters, which at first made me think that this could be a resin kit. Ok, we now see it is styrene but is it a short run kit? If so, I find the styrene parts look nice and clean for a short run mold. And if this is not a short run kit, all the price discussion above makes even more sense.

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On 5/23/2020 at 1:21 AM, Madoc said:

What are the best books about the 307?

There is a lot of info available in net on this type. Despite small number of build they were in use for many years after WW2, so even indvidual machines underwent large modification on their lifespan, so one have to be careful and try to find proper time photos...

Regards

J-W

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On 5/23/2020 at 3:13 AM, F-4Guy said:

I'm confused :hmmm: There's this first link of the thread that shows some masters, which at first made me think that this could be a resin kit. Ok, we now see it is styrene but is it a short run kit? If so, I find the styrene parts look nice and clean for a short run mold. And if this is not a short run kit, all the price discussion above makes even more sense.

I don’t know if it is a real short run kit  but nevertheless the discussion about the price is a little early as we don’t have a price yet for this kit.

The discussion is based on what the retail price did for other kits they produced! 
 

cheers, Jan

 

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5 hours ago, janneman36 said:

I don’t know if it is a real short run kit  but nevertheless the discussion about the price is a little early as we don’t have a price yet for this kit.

The discussion is based on what the retail price did for other kits they produced! 
 

cheers, Jan

 

Yes, I see the discussion is about the other kits they produced and no price announced for this one yet but if that's the price policy they maintain then it wouldn't be too wrong to expect the same here.

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The kit is expected to be released in the beginning of autumn and from what I know I expect the kit to be twice the price of their smaller (He114) kits...can’t give an exact pricing as there is something as import taxes and other variables..

 

cheers, Jan

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I’m confused about why there appears to be an engine option for 14-cylinder, twin row, PW R-1830 Twin Wasps when every B-17 and derivative aircraft only used 9-cylinder Wright R-1820s, which are shown as the other option. Was there a one-off aircraft that used the PWs?

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