Homebee Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) Bat Project is to release 1/72nd Boeing 307 Stratoliner kits - early & late. Source: http://bat-project.com.ua/b-307 Master model pictures V.P. Edited January 17, 2021 by Homebee 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Esposito Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Is this a styrene kit? Never heard of this company before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaVenom Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Nor me but if it's an all injection kit then count me in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mike Esposito said: Is this a styrene kit? Never heard of this company before. Company online catalogue (injected plastic kits): http://bat-project.com.ua/каталог-моделей In Britmodeller Rumourmonger sub-forum: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q="Bat Project"&type=forums_topic&nodes=153&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy V.P. Edited October 3, 2019 by Homebee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basuroy Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Yes their kits are styrene but they charge 50 euro for a 72nd scale kit single engine biplane kit so go figure how much they will charge for this ... An atrociously costly brand that is either out of touch with the going market rate or doesn't gives a damn. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Or 18 minutes ago, Basuroy said: Yes their kits are styrene but they charge 50 euro for a 72nd scale kit single engine biplane kit so go figure how much they will charge for this ... An atrociously costly brand that is either out of touch with the going market rate or doesn't gives a damn. Or,perhaps they are only intending a low production run of a relatively unknown type which itself only had a very limited production run? This, in turn results in a very high unit cost? Not a type that interests me but, I guess it will up to individuals to decide if it was worth it Allan 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I don't think the term "going market rate" is useful when it comes to modelling such types. There is, after all, no existing competition for a Boeing 307 apart from an old and limited run conversion of an even older B-17. Hence no market exists, in the economic sense. As said above, it is possible for a mass-production injection company to profit from a price much less than that with which a small garage company would even begin to cover costs. The trade off is that a mainstream company requires a large number of sales, thus restricting its output to a very small proportion of the number of aircraft types produced since 1903. Anyone who wants to model some other type has to scratchbuild or go to the fellow enthusiast with rather more time/effort/skill/facilities/ambition/whatever, and that will inevitably cost extra, as the tools used do not last for long production runs that could bring down the price. However there are many more modellers who want a popular subject than those wanting any individual other. And as time passes, the number of well-known types shrinks and increasing numbers of once well-known types become exotic. There's a posting today from someone who'd never heard of a Heinkel 116 - not the most common of types agreed, but surely one well-enough known to any enthusiast of my generation. There may of course be modellers who only buy models because of low price rather than interest in the type, but surely not many? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaVenom Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 And not forgetting how much it costs to make an injection plastic kit. It's a large investment and much more than what it costs to make a resin kit. Much, much more and especially as this is more obscure than something like a Lancaster or B17. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Graham Boak said: I don't think the term "going market rate" is useful when it comes to modelling such types. There is, after all, no existing competition for a Boeing 307 apart from an old and limited run conversion of an even older B-17. Hence no market exists, in the economic sense. I agree with your broad point, it is never going to be a big-selling kit and there has been nothing out for a couple of decades. I assume you're referring to the (pretty terrible) 1/72 effort by Maquette, which was by some definitions as a conversion as they added their own fuselage to relevant parts of the ex-Frog B-17E, and sold it as a complete injected kit in the late 1990s. There was a superb silk-purse-from-sow's-ear effort here, but I'd rather start somewhere better to be honest. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/airfixtributeforum/building-maquette-s-boeing-307-stratoliner-pan-am-t7649-s30.html Fans of the type might wish to know there is a 1/144 kit from Roden due soon, and that will probably be the one for me. as it's how I like my airliners. But it's not direct competition for the new Bat 1/72 one, of course. Edited October 3, 2019 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Graham Boak said: There's a posting today from someone who'd never heard of a Heinkel 116 - not the most common of types agreed, but surely one well-enough known to any enthusiast of my generation. apparently not well enough... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 The best thing of the Maquette kit were the 75$ I made selling it on eBay.😂 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Robertone139 said: The best thing of the Maquette kit were the 75$ I made selling it on eBay.😂 And the worse was ~2 mm difference between lenght of left and right halves of fuselage if you want to see details: Regards J-W Edited October 3, 2019 by JWM 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 In 1/144 it would be good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) Roden is doing it in 1/144 Edited October 3, 2019 by Work In Progress 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basuroy Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Albeback52 said: Or Or,perhaps they are only intending a low production run of a relatively unknown type which itself only had a very limited production run? 13 hours ago, Graham Boak said: I don't think the term "going market rate" is useful when it comes to modelling such types. There is, after all, no existing competition for a Boeing 307 apart from an old and limited run conversion of an even older B-17. Hence no market exists, in the economic sense. To me , the Caprioni 101 by Fly or the Fokker T.V by valom are just as rare and esoteric which will likely sell very limited figures - both models retail for sub 30 euro . I personally got the Caprioni for 20 from Jadarhobby(that is the official FLY price ) before rarity increased the price a bit on ebay. The Bat Project Heinkel 114 costs atleast 40 euro if not more. That is their own prescribed price . It is a single engine biplane and yet commands a price higher than a Hasegawa B-24 . Let me quote the price of some single engine biplane prices from other short run manufacturer - Roden kits go for 6-10$ max , The special hobby kits of absurd biplanes of comparable rarirty go for 15-25 Euro - heck even the twin engine Heinkel 59.B from them if for 40 euro . The BAT project 72nd scale Nieuport biplane is 25$ minimum ; the roden nieuport is 7$. The Eduard Nieuport is 8-13$ depending on weekend or profipack edition. Roden 32nd scale biplane kits cost 25$. 48th cost 12-15$. So yes , I do feel BAT project demands a price that no one else does except maybe Chorozy Modelbud who make resin kits of even more unique subjects and to order. Of course everyone is at liberty to decide whether to go for it or not and maybe even BAT will surprise us with competitive rate( they have announced 4 kits in one go while they released just 3 in the past 4 or 5 years so maybe they are scaling up) but end of the day , it is in everyone's best interest including the manufacturer that prices remain within ballpark . As a customer , it is my role in the market to demand the best rate possible and the only tool I have on my disposal is my wallet. I have virtually the entire range from Roden and Eduard in 72nd scale , but not a single BAT kit even though I would like them just as much in my collection. Edited October 3, 2019 by Basuroy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Holden Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, Basuroy said: So yes , I do feel BAT project demands a price that no one else does except maybe Chorozy Modelbud who make resin kits of even more unique subjects and to order. There are some others attaining similar prices.....the recent Eastern Express 1/144 airliners (£45), Roden 1/144 Convair (£28) and Dora Wings SM55 (£64). There's a distinct Ukrainian/Russian pattern emerging here. In contrast to Czech and Polish kits which are much more reasonably priced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basuroy Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Roger Holden said: There are some others attaining similar prices.....the recent Eastern Express 1/144 airliners (£45), Roden 1/144 Convair (£28) and Dora Wings SM55 (£64). There's a distinct Ukrainian/Russian pattern emerging here. In contrast to Czech and Polish kits which are much more reasonably priced. The dora wing kit I have but then it is gem par comparison - there is no substitute for such a gorgeous airplane . But Heinkel 114 ? it is just another average biplane , there are tens of other floatplanes which look similar and costs a quarter of it . How could BAT ever think they will sell it for 40euro I will never know. The ICM Heinkel 51 floatplane biplane is 6$ . Go figure . But you make a good point here regarding Ukranian manufacturers . Add Clearprop model to the list - all their 72nd scale kits of single engine japanese fighters so far cost upwards 30USD. But they at least distinguish their models with full rivet details and PE sets for a very detailed cockpit . Still the price was too high for me to commit to one . I would have if they cost 20$ ( a 72nd Zero by tamiya purchased from Japan costs me 12$). ps: As per my market research , Dora kits are cheapest at Jadarhobby. The SM55 cost me 45USD I believe while the lowest rate I could find from others was 55USD and then upwards . I am VAT exempt(28% so that is a MASSIVE saving ) since I order from India pps: The soon to be released Dora 72nd scale Lysander will cost 23$ as confirmed by Dora themselves . Dora is smart - they charge a rate higher than others but not so high that it becomes a deal breaker. Typically , a kit like Lysander will go for 15-20USD if it was Special hobby or IBG or Arma Hobby releasing it . Edited October 3, 2019 by Basuroy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 19 hours ago, Graham Boak said: There's a posting today from someone who'd never heard of a Heinkel 116 - not the most common of types agreed, but surely one well-enough known to any enthusiast of my generation. There may of course be modellers who only buy models because of low price rather than interest in the type, but surely not many? Well, I am 61, been modelling and an enthusiast for most of my life and, I had never heard of it until I saw the announcement!😉😂 As for your other comment about prices, well, you may be right but, it is price that determines my purchases regardless of interest. There are plenty kits that interest me but, that won't ever be bought because they are out of my price bracket. This is dictated by personal circumstances. In a good month, I may have £25 -£30 to spare for modelling. Kind of limits my options a bit so, most of my guys are second hand or, lower end of the market kits. Putting money aside to save for more expensive items is not an option right now. I'm not complaining though. I can find enough to keep me happy Allan 😊 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) Regarding He 116 - I was not very familiar with it also, I thought that it was sole prototype but it was produced in short series of 14, used in Germany and Japan (Manchukuo some writes, but photos showes civi Japaneese registrations). Nice set of photos here: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cww2/he116.html, text in Russian but translators exists....Also here :http://alternathistory.com/pochtovyj-samolyot-dalnego-radiusa-dejstviya-heinkel-he-116-germaniya/ Note two variants of nose. For me similar concept to DH 91 Albatross. Regards J-W Edited October 4, 2019 by JWM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 A tailwheel fork of certain He-116 is preserved (some 5-10 years ago it was even exhibited) in the Polish Aviation Museum Krakow. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 As someone who has heard of the Valtion Vihuri I would say that I'm quite well clued up, but I've not come across the He 116 either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Interesting, and congratulation on what seems like a number of nice civil projects, really, but if the prices are like the numbers that have been circulating, will not buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomohawk Kid Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 03/10/2019 at 11:23, Basuroy said: Yes their kits are styrene but they charge 50 euro for a 72nd scale kit single engine biplane kit so go figure how much they will charge for this ... An atrociously costly brand that is either out of touch with the going market rate or doesn't gives a damn. In the world of scale aircraft modelling civil aviation is a niche, when was the last time Airfix popped a new tool 1/144 civil kit? By my reckoning it was 40 years ago. Given the subject matter this is very much a niche of a niche kit, particulary in 1/72. It will be priced for the market it can command versus the production costs which will be extremely limited at a price point which it is yet to be revealed. Will I buy it no, because it does not float my boat - will it be atrociously expensive, not to those who want an injection moulded 1/72 307 Stratoliner. Is the brand out of touch? I have no idea, nor do you. Tommo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, The Tomohawk Kid said: In the world of scale aircraft modelling civil aviation is a niche, when was the last time Airfix popped a new tool 1/144 civil kit? By my reckoning it was 40 years ago. Tommo. Pretty good guess. Airfix DC-10 released 1980.Prior to that there were four kits released in the 70s Lockheed TriStar (1972), DC-9 (1973), Airbus A300 (1974), Concorde (1976). Allan Edited October 6, 2019 by Albeback52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 On 03/10/2019 at 09:23, Basuroy said: Yes their kits are styrene but they charge 50 euro for a 72nd scale kit single engine biplane kit so go figure how much they will charge for this ... An atrociously costly brand that is either out of touch with the going market rate or doesn't gives a damn. They maybe costly but if the market will take it so be it, if not they will vote with their feet. Maybe you also need to tone down your remarks a little. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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