Munition Handling on Carriers?

[mdauben]

I was looking at a review of the Orange Hobby F-35C kit the other day, and something about the kit left me wondering.

 

The F-35C is the Navy version of the aircraft, so it has folding wings.  The version of the kit in question allowed the plane to be modeled in "beast mode" with a full load of under wing ordnance.  In "beast mode" the aircraft has three under wing pylons on each side, with the outboard pylon on the section of the wing that folds up.

 

The manufacturer's pics of the assembled model showed the aircraft with the wings folded, and a Sidewinder missile mounted on the outboard pylon at the same time.  Would this actually happen in normal carrier ops?  I know nothing about the subject, but it just seemed... odd to have a live missile on the folded up wing like that.

 

Thanks!  

[Des]

The Skyraider carried prodigious amounts and types of weaponry with wings folded on carrier decks  half a century ago.

 

Cannot think of any more recent carrier aircraft with actual pylons on the folding part of the wings but the F/A-18 Hornet has often been photographed on carriers with wings folded and Sidewinders on the wingtip launch rail.

 

Folding wings and other bits essentially save space for some or all of fitting aircraft on deck lifts and into the hangar deck or during deck operations before and after flight and if they are needed on the F-35 for the latter then I would imagine that the outer wing pylons will either be stressed to carry stores while folded as it would not be practical to arm the aircraft once wings are lowered on the catapult or disarm it on the arrestor wire before they are raised or alternatively they would not be used at all during carrier operations. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Des

[Kingsman]

Sidewinders only weigh just under 200lb so they wouldn't stress the hinges etc too much.  I imagine the outer pylons are only cleared for Sidewinder/ASRAAM type weapons, but a single 250lb free-fall weapon might be possible.  Buccaneers had pylons outboard of the wing fold and they were cleared for Sea Eagle and dual 1,000lb bombs, but I've only ever seen photos of the wings folded with practice bomb carriers fitted.

 

Of course the F35 has the radar signature of an A380 with all the underwing pylons stored...........

[mdauben]

Thanks!  Like I said, I have no actual knowledge of how things were done on a carrier, so you explanations help a lot!

[Creepy Pete]

Not a problem on the Su-33 either:

 

[Whitewolf]

On 10/1/2019 at 5:12 PM, Das Abteilung said:

Sidewinders only weigh just under 200lb so they wouldn't stress the hinges etc too much.  I imagine the outer pylons are only cleared for Sidewinder/ASRAAM type weapons, but a single 250lb free-fall weapon might be possible.  Buccaneers had pylons outboard of the wing fold and they were cleared for Sea Eagle and dual 1,000lb bombs, but I've only ever seen photos of the wings folded with practice bomb carriers fitted.

 

Of course the F35 has the radar signature of an A380 with all the underwing pylons stored...........

In an episode of 'Sailor' on Ark Royal IV a Buccaneer was parked on a lowered lift for a ' Hangar Dance' with a pair of Martels on the folded wings

[Bobski]

The outboard pylon on the folded section is a launch rail for a SRAAM, which would be AIM-9X on an F-35C (as only the USN and USMC have ordered it). I haven't seen any pictures of it loaded and folded, but given that this is done as a matter of routine on F/A-18s I would not be surprised to see it done with F-35C.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:32 PM, Stealthman said:

In an episode of 'Sailor' on Ark Royal IV a Buccaneer was parked on a lowered lift for a ' Hangar Dance' with a pair of Martels on the folded wings

Indeed, but bear in mind that they’d have been drill rounds, so not that heavy (relatively, before some Bombhead has a go!)

[Graham Boak]

Not quite sure what is the point of drill rounds that don't reflect the characteristics (including weight) of the original.  But this is the Navy,  I guess. 

 

I know that manufacturers can have their own dummy stores, but they are there to demonstate just what can be done rather than serve any useful training purpose.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Fair point, Graham - inexact use of terminology on my part.  I can assure you that the dummy (as opposed to drill) Sea Skuas that we’d put onto our Lynx when the ship was open to the public had very little in common with the actual missile.  Vaguely the correct shape, and compatible with the weapon carrier, but that’s about it.

[junglierating]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:33 PM, Graham Boak said:

Not quite sure what is the point of drill rounds that don't reflect the characteristics (including weight) of the original.  But this is the Navy,  I guess. 

 

I know that manufacturers can have their own dummy stores, but they are there to demonstate just what can be done rather than serve any useful training purpose.

Hmm I can assure you that the junior service do the same as the Navy.

In big handfuls.....3 types of weapon ...

Live/warshot, practice and drill/training.

I must admit in my experience of fixed wing weapons (standfast my Rotary experience) the drill weapons weighed the same as warshot.

Take the old 1000 pounder....green live then you had practice saxe blue and then drill generally for display so not much drill.

As for torpedoes...Warshot, TVT and EVT...training and exercise variants. 

SO depending on what drill actually means but there is a real point in training with a weapon store that actually reflects the live weapon in all but its explosive content.

Serious stuff Graham.😮😁

 

 

 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Thanks, which I think confirms my suggestion about the low value of light dummies for training, but that still leaves us with having heavy rounds being waved up in the air which does not seem like a particularly healthy practice.

 

PS  Re dummy rounds, if anyone has attempted to place aftermarket Sparrows (any variant) on their EAP, yes they are longer than the ones seen on the aircraft.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Selwyn]

1 hour ago, junglierating said:

Hmm I can assure you that the junior service do the same as the Navy.

In big handfuls.....3 types of weapon ...

Live/warshot, practice and drill/training.

I must admit in my experience of fixed wing weapons (standfast my Rotary experience) the drill weapons weighed the same as warshot.

Take the old 1000 pounder....green live then you had practice saxe blue and then drill generally for display so not much drill.

As for torpedoes...Warshot, TVT and EVT...training and exercise variants. 

SO depending on what drill actually means but there is a real point in training with a weapon store that actually reflects the live weapon in all but its explosive content.

Serious stuff Graham.😮😁

 

 

 

 

 

In the UK services ;

Live weapons are war shots.

Training weapons  ( marked Deep Saxe Blue) are designed for Aircrew training  (and are not necessarily inert!). 

Drill weapons (marked Oxford Blue) are for ground Crew training (and are usually, but not exclusively, "not for flight")

 Training and Drill rounds, are required to be mass  and shape equivalent to the Live round. to optimise training value.

 

Training rounds where appropriate (i.e. Inert) are sometimes used for groundcrew training.

 

US forces do not use Drill rounds they use Training rounds for Aircrew and Ground Crew training tasks. Us weapons used by the UK Generally do not have Drill versions,  but the UK do sometimes  mark /repaint  Training rounds that are out of flight hours "Drill."

 

Selwyn

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Selwyn

[junglierating]

57 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

In the UK services ;

Live weapons are war shots.

Training weapons  ( marked Deep Saxe Blue) are designed for Aircrew training  (and are not necessarily inert!). 

Drill weapons (marked Oxford Blue) are for ground Crew training (and are usually, but not exclusively, "not for flight")

 Training and Drill rounds, are required to be mass  and shape equivalent to the Live round. to optimise training value.

 

Training rounds where appropriate (i.e. Inert) are sometimes used for groundcrew training.

 

US forces do not use Drill rounds they use Training rounds for Aircrew and Ground Crew training tasks. Us weapons used by the UK Generally do not have Drill versions,  but the UK do sometimes  mark /repaint  Training rounds that are out of flight hours "Drill."

 

Selwyn

 

 

 

 

Exactly forgot to mention Oxford Blue...same colour as original Navy Lynx.....strangely. 

Mind you practice buckets of sunshine and Sea Eagle different again....but meh going down a different route now .

Meanwhile it's raining so the perfect day for bombing and gunning...bombheads muster on the line ...meh😆

Edited October 17, 2019 by junglierating