US Marines T6 Texan / Harvard - Compton Abbas

[Geoantmcc]

Hi everyone, 

 

Hope someone can help. I was lucky enough to have a flight in the Harvard/Texan for my 50th birthday this summer at Compton Abbas and I'd like to make a 1/48 scale model of it. 

 

This is the beauty:

 

https://www.dhflights.co.uk/product-page/harvard-stonehenge-ww2-bombing-cold-war-nuclear

 

Thing is - what colour is it?? Anyone have any idea what FS it is or what colour from what brand I could use? 

 

Thanks in advance! 

 

PS - would the Italeri be ok for this? 

[Ossington 2]

I get the Stonehenge bit (both the old stones and possibly an outline of the WW1 aerodrome, if lucky, but where else does it fly over? Which ranges and which nuke bunkers? The website don't say.

[Graham Boak]

The aircraft is a T-6G.  Or at least the canopy belongs to one.  The wartime aircraft have an additional central frame on each of the three centre sections - only two of these sections appear visible in the photo.  Either the G or the Canadian Mk.IV has an surviving central frame on the top of the three sections but the same clear side windows.  Sorry, I forget which, but as the Canadian has the longer rear section this is a G.  The tailwheel of the G also differs from the wartime examples, so I'd check that.  It shouldn't be a modelling problem if you follow the photo.

 

I believe that Italeri have done a G and a wartime airframe but am not up on 1/48 Texans (other than that the Monogram and the Occidental pair are all wartime ones).  If the Italeri kit you find is of an RAF aircraft then it is the wartime one.  Others will no doubt know more.

 

I suspect that the colour is meant to be the USN's Light Gull Grey, but it looks too brown and may be RAF Light Aircraft Grey - but it could be no specific military original.  Best write to the owner and ask him what colour he thinks it is, and model what you see in the photo(s) and remember.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Troy Smith]

You could ask the company if they know what colour it is?    Judging colour from  photos is tricky.

It doies not look a 'proper' colour to me,  but maybe it was a special Marine colour? 

 

There are two 1/48th Harvard/Texan kits,  late 70's by Monogram,  reissued by Revell, and a 90's one by Occidental, reissued by Italeri, they both have good and bad points,  I'm sure there have been threads on this... let me see

OK, with links and various discussions

 

HTH

[Geoantmcc]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone! I have messaged the company but not had a reply yet hence me asking here. I can't find anything online about it so far. 

 

Sorry Ossington - no idea! 🙂

[Graham Boak]

Eduard do an etched sheet for the 1/48 Occidental T-6G - I knew that they did wartime US and Canadian built examples of earlier variants but not that one.  Italeri do a 1/48 T-6G but I suspect this is the Occidental tooling, not that it matters.  I found them by Googling.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Looks like light Gull grey to old Mk.1’s 👀. Lt.Gull grey has a warmer tan tone to it as Dark gull grey is more of a standard grey. 
 

https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/light-gull-grey-fs16440/AKI000RC220/product.php?type=alternatives

 

Pretty standard color on USMC USN Aircraft in the 50’s thru the 70’s. 
 

Dennis

[Geoantmcc]

Thanks all. I’ll try light gull grey and take it from there. 

[Paul J]

I wouldn'y add the brown though Lighting conditions on photos can cast strange hews. USN Light gull greywould be the way to go

[Graham Boak]

Slightly confused here.  If Light Gull Grey has a brown cast already then there wouldn't be any need to add one.  I agree about the problems with colour reproduction and possible light effects, but there's no sign of any brown cast on the white.  Either way, as I said, what colour does he remember the aircraft as being?

[Geoantmcc]

The pictures are close to how I remember them tbh. Grey but slightly beige. 
 

full disclosure - I’m slightly colour blind so that probably doesn’t help. 

[Seawinder]

15 minutes ago, Geoantmcc said:

The pictures are close to how I remember them tbh. Grey but slightly beige. 
 

full disclosure - I’m slightly colour blind so that probably doesn’t help. 

... in which case Gull Gray 36440 would be the way to go. Sure looks like that to me FWIW.

[Troy Smith]

7 hours ago, Geoantmcc said:

Thanks all. I’ll try light gull grey and take it from there. 

A supplemental question, that @Tailspin Turtle  or @Dana Bell possibly could answer, but may also be worth asking the company,  is does the plane in question represent a specific plane , or alternately, is restored in a scheme that the actual plane was painted in when in service? 

 

Hmm,  on this tack,  I looked up the USN/USMC designation,  SNJ,  and found this

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/06/navalized-snj.html

 

also if you google image 'usmc snj texan'  a few images of similarly marked planes turn up

eg

 

So, the question maybe should be , what color were USMC SNJ trainers in the 1950's? 

 

HTH

[Paul J]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

A supplemental question, that @Tailspin Turtle  or @Dana Bell possibly could answer, but may also be worth asking the company,  is does the plane in question represent a specific plane , or alternately, is restored in a scheme that the actual plane was painted in when in service? 

 

Hmm,  on this tack,  I looked up the USN/USMC designation,  SNJ,  and found this

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/06/navalized-snj.html

 

also if you google image 'usmc snj texan'  a few images of similarly marked planes turn up

eg

 

So, the question maybe should be , what color were USMC SNJ trainers in the 1950's? 

 

HTH

One thing to note regarding restored Texan/Harvards is that not all are in accurate, authentic finishes like paint colour, sizes of markings , national and codes etc. The one in Troys post above being an example. The '41'  looks to be smaller than standard, the font for the small serial/bu.no at lower rear and the star and bar.

[85sqn]

Off the top of my head, it's an SNJ-5. If you've seen the recent Catch-22 on channel 4, this was the aircraft used.

 

Italeri/Occidental did a T-6G kit which will absolutely do just fine and comes with that style canopy plus the short exhaust and undercarriage doors.

 

You'll find more info and photos here; https://www.t6harvard.com/uk-harvards/g-dhhf/

 

Notice the grey in these photos is more like light Gull grey and doesn't have the brown tint the above photo has.

 

Best regards

 

Nick

[Graham Boak]

The Marines will have had SNJs but the differences between late-war T-6s and SNJ are nil.  Unless built for carrier flying, of course, which this one isn't.  However they would not have the less-framed canopy seen here.  For the modeller this still requires a T-6G kit, or at least an aftermarket canopy.

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

A supplemental question, that @Tailspin Turtle  or @Dana Bell possibly could answer, but may also be worth asking the company,  is does the plane in question represent a specific plane , or alternately, is restored in a scheme that the actual plane was painted in when in service? 

 

Hmm,  on this tack,  I looked up the USN/USMC designation,  SNJ,  and found this

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/06/navalized-snj.html

 

also if you google image 'usmc snj texan'  a few images of similarly marked planes turn up

eg

 

 

So, the question maybe should be , what color were USMC SNJ trainers in the 1950's? 

 

HTH

 

Trainers would have not been in overall grey for sure... Primary trainers at the end of the war were in overall Orange Yellow, while advanced trainers were in overall aluminum.

In 1955 the scheme was changed to overall Orange Yellow for all single reciprocating engine trainers. Later a white/fluorescent red scheme was adopted but at that point I believe all USMC SNJs had been retired.

 

The USMC also used the Texan as hacks and utility aircraft in many units, at command level and at most air stations. In any case I find it difficult that any would have carried an overall grey finish during the postwar years.

It is more likely that whoever repainted this particular aircraft used a light grey instead of the more likely aluminum finish for some reason. I've seen this done a few times to restored warbirds

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Giorgio N

[Geoantmcc]

Thanks everyone. I knew there would be experts on here! Most of my research seemed to show an aluminium finish which is what confused. Not sure if it’s meant to represent a specific aircraft, I’ll ask them. 
 

The consensus seems to be go with Gull Gray/Grey so I’ll use that! 
 

Thanks again

 

G

[Giorgio N]

I have strong doubts about the autenticity of the markings.. A small number of USMC units used SNJs for training in the '50s in the aluminum scheme and similar markings, however they carried different tail codes: VMT-1 carried LF, VMT-2 carried WD, VMIT-10 carried SD and VMIT-20 carried BE. Some carried bands like the one shown in the picture, but in green, not red

As said before, other units used SNJs for a number of missions, but no USMC unit carried JF, that was in use from 1957 on VU-4 aircraft (later VC-4). This was a US Navy unit, not an USMC one.

 

Said that, in any case it's easy to reproduce this aircraft once you have found a good match for the grey. It's in any case an aircraft that exists and fly in these markings, it matters little if they represent a proper USMC aircraft. And of course, there's always a chance that someone will show proof that the scheme is based on a real USMC machine at some point

[Geoantmcc]

Thanks for your reply Giorgio. 

 

Cheers

 

George