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Spitfire PRXIX, MSG and PRU Blue


Magua87

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Kia ora, Britmodellers.

 

I'm working on an Airfix PRXIX in 1/48. Specifically, I'm portraying PS852, the Spitfire that Edward Powles flew on spy flights over China. I'm interested in portraying it after it was repainted from a scheme of all-over PRU Blue to PRU Blue undersides with Medium Sea Grey top sides (wings and fuselage). What I'm not clear on is how many of the aircraft's stencils might have been carried over when it was repainted.

 

I have the Kits-World sheet for the PRXIX and there's a plethora of stencils, but I'm not sure of the authenticity for the repainted aircraft. There are some great shots of PS852 and PS854 in Antti_K's thread here and he notes on one photo (presumably pre-repaint) the aircraft's "original wartime stenciling" below the cockpit, indicating that there would be fewer stencils post-repaint. Indeed, the Airfix instruction sheet for PS888 has no stencils, except for those on the propeller and the jack placement points under the wings. Not even any walk way lines on the wings, bar the big black bars adjacent to the cockpit on the wings. 

 

Any thoughts as to which, if any, stencils I should be using for my PRXIX? I'm leaning towards none, except those mentioned in the Airfix instructions for PS888 (jack points and the propeller only). 

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1 minute ago, Graham Boak said:

Do we know whether this was a complete repaint or just the addition of the MSG on top?  If the latter then the original stencils would be retained on the blue.  Otherwise probably not, but this could be a murky area.

 

But Cold War not WWII.

Complete repaint I believe. Whoops, good call on the sub-forum, but don't think I can move the thread, however. 

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Hi all,

 

As you may know, PS852 was part of a two-plane detachment based in Hong Kong in the early 1950's.  By 1951 the planes were looking pretty ragged.  The OIC of the detachment was Flt Lt Ed Powles; I had the opportunity to speak with him and heard several stories of his time in Hong Kong.  He asked to have the planes repainted but maintenance did not have the necessary paint.  After some "back and forth," the maintenance chief reported only having small quantities of roundel red and blue, but not enough of either paint to paint the entire airframe.  Ed ordered them to mix the paints and paint the plane.  The officer commanding went ballistic when he spotted the purple PR XIX, but paint arrived within a couple of weeks and both planes were properly repainted in the new scheme.  I think it's the most attractive scheme on the PR XIX, and PS852 is a very worthy subject for a model.  I converted and cleaned up an Academy Mk 14 into the PR XIX some years ago and it remains my favorite model.

 

HTH, Jim

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Good info, I didn't know about the purple phase. OK then. so if it's known to have been not one but two complete repaints in a short time then I imagine whoever was doing the work got pretty fed up with it, so there's a good case for stenciling being minimal. If a photo ever turns up to prove that wrong then it's easy to add some stencils after the fact.

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Good morning Magua,

 

the photo showing Flt Lt Powles sitting in the cockpit indeed shows the "original" stenciling. There are other war time close-up photos of PR.XIXs to confirm that. Unfortunately this isn't the only one (stencil) Kitsworld didn't get right. I also have a stencil sheet for Mk.XIV in 1/48 scale from another manufacturer and this falls below par as well. The research just isn't good (like the oil and air space marking, fuel grade vs fuel amount and so on).

 

I have a better copy of that photo showing Sgt Ken Walker flying over Aberdeen fishing village. It shows a rather large stencil on the starboard side, close to the roundel. I will check that for you.

 

I guess the answer for the question "were the under surfaces re-painted" can be found when we find out whether PS852 and PS854 originally carried serials under wings. A photo shows (like in my model) that the numbers were smaller than in other PR.XIXs. Were those painted on in Singapore just before the detachment departed for Hong Kong? That was my assumption when I finished my model.

 

Hope this helps,

Antti

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On 10/1/2019 at 7:17 PM, Antti_K said:

Hope this helps,

Antti

Hi, Antti. 

 

I'm wondering about the stencils on the after after it was repainted into MSG and PRU-Blue. I presume that photo in your thread is probably before the aircraft was repainted? 

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Hello Magua,

 

actually there are photos showing the aircraft both before and after re-paint. The first two pictures show both PS852 and PS854 in PRU Blue overall scheme. Note how weathered PS854 already looks. The second photo of PS854 was taken after the re-paint (I have a better copy of this photo showing the location of fuselage stencils).

 

The last photos are of interest: Airfix made a painting guide for their 1/72 scale PR.XIX (PS852) in HSS overall with a red/white spinner and it was marketed as a personal mount of Flt Lt Powles. That colour photo showing MSG/PRU Blue scheme was taken at Kai Tak after Powles had returned to Singapore. So he never flew PS852 or PS854 in silver paint.

 

Cheers,

Antti

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On 10/2/2019 at 9:52 PM, Antti_K said:

The second photo of PS854 was taken after the re-paint (I have a better copy of this photo showing the location of fuselage stencils).

 

 

Cheers,

Antti

Hi, Antti. 

 

Very interesting. Are you able to share the higher res image? Or could you let me know what stencils are visible? 

 

Thanks very much for your help.

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Hello Magua,

 

the photo I was referring to was published in Aeroplane Monthly, November 1998. I have that magazine but all I can find at the moment is a photocopy of that article.

 

Details that are visible in the photo:

- due to Spitfire's construction and high Sun altitude, all fuselage panel lines are visible and look very dark

- fuselage serial is painted with "squared font" (originally they were "rounded font") all characters perfectly lined-up (ref. my findings about PS852 original scheme and serial)

- fuselage roundel is larger and positioned higher than in the original paint scheme

- black anti-glare panel and wind screen frame. Cylinder rocker covers are partly painted with black

- no walkway markings on starboard wing

- stencil below the canopy, just behind the cockpit outflow door, four lines (colour either black or red, as the photo was taken using either panchromatic or orthochromatic film without a filter)

- a light disc (pink perhaps) and two lines of text on propeller blade(s)

- spinner painted with MSG (as it still was after the detachment had returned to Singapore)

 

I will check for further details when I found the original magazine.

 

Cheers,

Antti

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11 hours ago, Antti_K said:

I found the original magazine:yahoo: There was still one more hiding place...

 

No further stencils visible at the starboard side; just the one below canopy.

 

Cheers,

Antti

Brilliant. Thanks again! 

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:21 PM, Antti_K said:

I found the original magazine:yahoo: There was still one more hiding place...

 

No further stencils visible at the starboard side; just the one below canopy.

 

Cheers,

Antti

One more question before I let you go!

 

Wing roundel sizes? Do they look to be the same size as they were on your model? Xtradecal's sheet 72105 recommends 48 inches for the PS852 after it's repaint into silver (after Powles departure). 

 

The remainders I have on the Kitsworld sheet are 28 and 54 inches. 

Edited by Magua87
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Hello Magua,

 

wing roundels: that's a tough one.

 

No 81 Squadron re-painted all their five (three at Seletar and two at Kai Tak) Spitfire PR.XIXs over the years. There were two more aircraft just after the war but I don't take them into consideration in here. After re-painting PS890 (my model) had "large" roundels when at the same time PS836 got "small" roundels. By "small" I mean the original size (like in my PS852). I've seen a couple of photos showing Seletar based Spitfires in PRU Blue overall scheme but you can't see the serial. They carry "small" roundels. Looking at the photo of PS854 I would go with "small" roundels as they are located clearly some distance behind the wing leading edge.

 

Here is an excellent collection of 81 Squadron's Spitfires at Seletar:

http://www.rafseletar.info/Personal Pages/Peter Gidden/Photos 1/The Late Peter Giddens - Photo Gallery page 1.html

 

Cheers,

Antti

Edited by Antti_K
Squadron number should be 81 not 80
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