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1/32 Buccaneer anyone?


bentwaters81tfw

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For those of you who are confused about the wing root/fuselage join it is not a straight angle join, the whole wing structure blends in with the fuselage so there are no sharp edges or corners; think of the coanda effect, where initially a fluid following the contours, stays attached to the surface; this is what one needs to visualise, natural curves and no sharp edges. This does not show up well on 1/72 or 1/48 scale but at 1/32, those curves make their presence felt. This is a problem many modellers will find with Brit cold war jets and especially at 32nd scale. A case in point, the F4K/M Phantom has exactly the same curves as the Buccaneer and the area rule on the F4K/M, is most pronounced at the beginning of the air intakes to the wing root and aft of the trailing edge along the rear fuselage; its all there and doesn't show itself very well at 72nd and 48th scale.

 

Alan

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8 hours ago, Simon Cornes said:

Wow, this is complicated but thanks Alan for explaining it. The one good thing is that, think how it would be if it was a 1/24th scale Bucc ? (Put that thought out of your mind straightaway!!

Simon

The main point is to use plenty of milliput to smooth out the wing join/fuselage area and study photos. Remember the basic equation, all smooth curves, no abrupt joins. The other main point to note is the where the canopy is and going back to the rear a couple of inches, the shoulder between the canopy and air intake, should have a more rounded profile, you will notice it is a little too flat, on the model and this was due to the way the original master was made all those years ago as it was made in one-piece. 

Operational Buccaneers ran with their tyres inflated to maximum pressure, only museums have aircraft with partially deflated tyres! The vertical tail sits a little too steep forward and may have to be trimmed at the rear to give the correct height. 

We won't go into 1/24 scale, I already feel the 32nd scene is crowded with too many players, so if I get squeezed out by the big boys, then I will have to take up refuge with the 1/24 community.

At 1/32nd scale all the secrets about aircraft design come out, what one did at 72nd and 48th is no longer acceptable at the bigger scale. Think of 32nd like a mirror, it exposes all those characteristics you didn't realised was there and it was only the other day that I looked in the mirror and I suddenly realised how much older I looked!

 

Alan

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I am attending a photoshoot with the Buccaneers at Bruntingthorpe on 22nd Feb if anyone wants / needs specific photos.

Ill try and spot the curves as discussed above. 

On decal note, I asked Nigel about methods of ordering / payments for the sheets discussed and whether the gulf war sheets are an option. 

I am awaiting a reply but I will chase him up after the Christmas holidays 

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On 12/24/2019 at 8:45 AM, Icelandic Fine Art said:

 

At 1/32nd scale all the secrets about aircraft design come out, what one did at 72nd and 48th is no longer acceptable at the bigger scale. Think of 32nd like a mirror, it exposes all those characteristics you didn't realised was there and it was only the other day that I looked in the mirror and I suddenly realised how much older I looked!

 

Alan

 

Exactly.

 

Rightly or wrongly, the tolerance for things which are acceptable in smaller scales just isn't there in 1/32.

Although many key subjects are still not covered well (emphasis on 'well'), there are enough exquisite kits eg Tamiya releases starting from the Zero, Wingnut Wings etc, to make many modellers in this scale have no interest in going back to the old days of 1/32 when it was pretty much a desert.

 

Personally, I am one of these guys.

I don't particularly like the assembler vs modeller differentiation, just as I don't like the rivet counter vs 'it looks like a xyz to me...' split; there's room for everyone.

So whilst I am confident in my skills at getting this kit to look like a really good 1/48 kit, I think there really are only a few out there who can get it to Tamiya Corsair quality; and for my own personal standards that 1/48 level is just not good enough - indeed it was one of the reasons I left 1/48 20 odd years ago.

 

I wish you all the best with this project and hope it provides a springboard for your success in future projects, and of course will be avidly following the builds on here and LSP.

 

Best wishes,

 

Nick

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It’s a matter of what you are happy with and capable of. I like the larger scales because they are a larger canvas to work on and every model I build is slightly better than the last. I am very happy - indeed I think it’s essential with the likes of Trumpeter to buy aftermarket cockpits, to a lesser extent with Tamiya and not at all with Wingnut, God bless ‘em but at the end of the day I wanted a big, accurate Buccaneer and Alan’s is the best game in town. I will build it using my skills learnt to date and I am always happy with the latest completed model. It won’t be perfect because, for example, I am not prepared to fully detail the inside of the canopy frame, but some will. It’s a matter of what we can do and what we are happy with and that’s different for each of us. I’m sure you could take one of Alan’s Bucc’s and make a better job of it than others who already have the kit with your current skill set but it’s just a matter of whether you want to do it.

 

Bye the way, I’m up for a set of outboard pylons if anyone reads this!!

 

Simon

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I wish I could decide!

 

I was pretty much settled on an RAF wraparound one as per the double page artwork in an '80s issue of Warplane (or whatever it was called), but then I saw  how

distinctive the early FAA scheme was with the high white undersides in a Bucc history video section on the Torrey Canyon episode. The white would make all the intakes, additional vents and grilles on the underside far more visible. But then again .... early seats, cockpit clutter .... aaaargh!

 

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On 11/24/2019 at 1:47 PM, Icelandic Fine Art said:

I have a quick question for you seasoned modellers, the clear transparencies used on the 32nd Buccaneers, can they be polished up to give a better appearance if they are dull and cloudy in appearance?

 

Alan

To be honest Alan, I haven't tried your own clear resin pieces yet.

But if they are at all similar to the Alley Cat Canberra clear resin canopies, then yes they polish up nicely with micromesh cloths and plastic/perspex polish.

I'm not a fan of Future dipping, but others are and may find it gives a finish to their liking with less work.

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On 11/22/2019 at 12:13 PM, Icelandic Fine Art said:

. No model representation is perfect and I don't think some individuals are aware of how difficult it is to design and manufacture such a complex kit; it is no easy task and there is simply no pleasing some.

 

Alan

 

That;s very true Alan. But as far as model making goes, what I like more than anything else is that the model teaches something about the original subject that I wasn't aware of before.

I am so sick of buying model kits or references that make it plain I know more about the subject than the producer does. I can't wait to explore the Buccaneer further which has so many interesting features and have high expectations of your F-4K (even if the early versions shown displayed an unfortunate Matchbox flattened canopy tendency).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Buccaneers,

 

The latest update is that I am working on replacement air intakes with the correct RR Spey fan diameter blades that fit from the back end of the intake. I am in the process of remastering the air intakes and exhaust rear end to make them hollow as they should be. The fan blades on the front end needs enlarging to the correct diameter and I am currently working on a solution. This will all take time but together we can get there. 

 

Alan

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hi there alan - that's great timing ,  I was working on the kit engine fronts last night ,  and I got  part way in , but when the fit issues became obvious, I started looking at creating FOD guards!

 

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/82749-132-buccaneer-s2b-icelandic-fine-arts/

 

A link to my build -  you might get a laugh out of it!

 

CR

 

 

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Actually ColinR,

 

I am very impressed with the build process and its amazing what you have done with a 20+ year old design. I see what you mean with the instruments and cockpit, there are quite a few pin holes all over the place and that was due to me rushing the kit out as modellers' were impatient to wait any longer and considering I had no idea how to make a cockpit, there was considerable head scratching. Similarly with the bulged bomb bay door, somebody else was supposed to make it but it never materialised and the old proverb, 'if want you something, you have to do it yourself', hard fact of life but true. 

I noticed your workbench, I thought my one was bad, yours is even worse! Yours look something between an old Victorian workshop and 'something gone wrong in the planning stage'.

Unfortunately with the Buccaneer, I never had enough time to do anything properly, a mistake I won't repeat with the F4K/M, and not having access to an airframe, seriously hampered proper planning and design and my overall effort. I like how you have done the cockpit and added the canopy rails. The pylons look good, I had planned to make them but time was the limiting factor. It looks like you are going to do an RAF version, I remember that version well, having visited RAF Honiton as a cadet back in the day.

With the air intakes and fan blade sizes it was never practical to fit from the front end, since the diameter of the fan blades are way too large to enter from the front which is why I made them smaller. The actual outer casing of the fan blades sit in a recess so that the blades occupy most of the remaining space. The modeller will still have to cut out the old air intakes and fit the ones, likewise with the rear exhaust, much work will be required. Keep up the good work.

 

Alan

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Quote

I noticed your workbench, I thought my one was bad, yours is even worse! Yours look something between an old Victorian workshop and 'something gone wrong in the planning stage'.

Cheek - I tidied it up specially for the pics, its usually a LOT worse!

 

The pylons were fun to do , the modeller I mentioned , the one who shratchbuilds ships was a real inspiration, I spent ages watching how he did things , he has a fairly specialised set up , including a vac chamber to outgas the resin,  but his  approach of using wood for the basic shapes then skinning them with thin plastic to allow him to add detail seemed one that could be copied without a huge outlay in materials, and so far so good. 

 

RAF all the way , specifically 12 Sq Lossiemouth for me, partly because its just up the road from aberdeen, and because of stories I heard about them from a retires Ait Traffic controller who use to try and wort our what happens when lox flying buc scared guys flying to and from the oil rigs in the north sea,(How low can you go, was the question, And the reply produced the  confession , "12 feet is my lowest recorded altitude" )

 

I'm playing around with the intakes, BUt increasingly the thought of FOD guards seems an option ,  the geometry of the intakes  is a pain and I don't envy you trying to reproduce it !

 

The cockpit isn't too bad , some time with generic PE panels can cure many of the issues, , and frankly I'd rather have something I can work with , rather than having to build it from Scratch !

 

 

Oh - as for the workshop..

 

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😉

 

Edited by colin ritchie
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1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

It shows just how good the Bucc's camouflage is, you can't even see it on that desk.

 

Looks like the inside of a woman's handbag.

It looks like the Buccaneer has morphed into that F16. About the only thing worth having off that bench is the bottle of Future Klear, that must be one of the last remaining ones in the country. With such a lack of space, ColinR will have to go back building 1/72 stuff as there's not enough room for anything else.

 

Alan

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OK I surrender .. that pic was taken a while ago , on my first attempt at the academy 1/32 F-16I

 

The library has basically doubled in size since that pic was taken , one of my few vices I'm afraid ,  that and modelling ..

 

Since I seem to have opened myself up to ridicule, , it might be worth while to see who is on the receiveing end of all these comments 

 

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Again some time ago, nowadays the beard is thicker, and greyed as is the hair, and there's a fair bit less of me in general!

 

 

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7 hours ago, Icelandic Fine Art said:

I noticed your workbench, I thought my one was bad, yours is even worse!

I am reminded of a quote here, but don't recall to whom it should be credited. It went something along the lines of " A cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind" to which the reply was "Then what does your empty desk say about you?"

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