John Aero Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 If any one is building the old Airframe simple vacform kit of the 1/72 Mercury component. Use 1/48 Gipsy Moth propellers which size out quite nicely. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 Thank you everyone for your kind comments and especially to @John Aero for sharing his valuable and extensive experience - I’m sure it will save me a lot of burned plastic! Since getting back at the weekend I have done a little bit of mould repair and clean up after my previous attempt, but tomorrow I’m away again (this time for a break, not work) for a week. I want to crack on with it as far as I can in the GB, but unless I get some sneaky bench time early tomorrow it’s on ice for another week. Thanks, Adrian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffB Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Sorry for the digression Adrian, but here's a 1/200 project that I may get round to one day. Dinky toys from the late 1940s Enjoy your break, Cliff 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) Just been re-reading my "Encyclopaedia of Military Aircraft Models 1/72" and I came across a pic of the Empire that Frog Penguin made for Imperial Airways as a promotional offer. They were on a stand with a removeable fuselage side to show a complete interior, and had battery powered lighting. Apparently in 1939 they made 1000 ready assembled models for Imperial who sold them to their passengers and must be as rare as hen's teeth with a price to match - they say that at the time they cost the equivalent of 3 weeks average pay,and from what I have seen in Hansard that was about 3 pounds 9 shillings a week in 1938 (admittedly for skilled labour) so we are talking over £10, whatever that is in today's money - one on line calculator says £660! Perhaps you should set up a production line Adrian😀 Pete Edited November 28, 2019 by PeterB 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 I have thought about acquiring some A3-sized transparent plastic, but then I lie down and the feeling goes away! Regards, Adrian 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, PeterB said: Apparently in 1939 they made 1000 ready assembled models for Imperial who sold them to their passengers and must be as rare as hen's teeth with a price to match I wonder if any still exist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Given the media used and Tony W's problems in the Frog build, probably not many have survived Charlie. Pete 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 If anyone has one, I'd think it might be @TonyW 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Johnson said: If anyone has one, I'd think it might be @TonyW Unfortunately not Charlie, I live in hope though. I've seen a couple in the flesh, an unbuilt kit and a built window model. Both are things of beauty. Peter van Lune's FROG Penguin book , the definitive Penguin source, has this splendid example inside... 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, PeterB said: Given the media used and Tony W's problems in the Frog build, probably not many have survived Charlie. Pete They are out there Pete, not many, but they exist. They are even more prone to warping than the others in the range. The kits came with a large wooden spar to fit into the wings to try to hold the shape. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Wonderful, thanks Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Hi Tony, So it seems they produced some in kit form as well - not mentioned in my book. Any idea what scale they are? Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 10 hours ago, PeterB said: Hi Tony, So it seems they produced some in kit form as well - not mentioned in my book. Any idea what scale they are? Pete The whole Penguin range were to 1.72 scale Pete. Peter van Lunes book is well worth a look if the subject interests you, I can highly recommend it. Sorry about the thread hijack Adrian, back to you now... Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 Not a hijack at all! Currently sitting outside a hotel trying to work out whether I need sunscreen (unlikely) or waterproofs today... If I can get something that looks half as good as that 80 year-old model above I will be very happy. I’m impressed by the panel line detailing - I didn’t expect the old FROG kit to have any. Regards, Adrian 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebra Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 9 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Currently sitting outside a hotel trying to work out whether I need sunscreen (unlikely) or waterproofs today Careful now! Once on a trip to Sydney (where it can get very sunny, obviously, but also rains a lot) I went with waterproofs and got pretty badly sunburnt. Sunscreen and waterproofs aren't mutually exclusive! And I'm loving your work on the Empire. Looking forward to more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Hi Adrian, The book I mentioned says that the Penguin kits were very accurate because of the "Reed-Prentice" machinery used - whatever that was. Enjoy your break. Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, PeterB said: ...because of the "Reed-Prentice" machinery used - whatever that was. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Here is some interesting info on those early Frog models https://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/frog-penguin-model-kits-1936-50 And here poster (no Empire, unfortunately but there is DH 86!) Cheers J-W 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I would suggest that Reed -Prentice probably also made Die Sink Panto-graphs and Die Sink Milling and Spark Erosion machines which is how moulds were made in those days, indeed they were in use right up into the late 20th century. I have some built up models such as a Hart trainer, Spitfire 12, P.47 and a Tempest II. I have the bits of a AW Scimitar as well. They were made of a Cellulose Acetate material which warps and distorts hideously. I also have the remains of the less collectible, pre shaped Balsa wood Barracuda which had injected plastic details such as the props and U/c. My science master at school had the remains of one of the Empire boats and it is the only one I've seen. John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Hi John, In the recent Frog GB our colleague TonyW rebuilt a Penguin Spitfire and mentioned the problems with Cellulose Acetate. Thanks for the info on the Reed-Prentice machines - I knew that prior to the merger with Prentice, Mr Reed had set up a company to build and sell specialist drilling machines but was unsure how they might be used by Frog Penguin, but your post has clarified that. Cheers Pete Edited November 30, 2019 by PeterB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 This is a much more interesting thread when I don’t post! Thank you for all the feedback, information and advice. After the first round of vacforming I had to make some running repairs to the mould and re-primed it. Today I managed to be at home and to sneak into the kitchen this morning. I wiped the masters lightly with peanut oil, filled in the canopy with balsa and raised the masters a bit higher by 2mm this time (Thanks @PeterB and @John Aero for the advice). The first one was a bit of a disaster. I skimped on the staples and relied on the tape. It didn’t hold and the plastic fell down onto the oven shelf, hence the ripples and “fabric effect”. Despite all that, one of them came out OK and the plastic bedded down in the corners pretty well: The second one was stapled with no tape. I think I took this one out too soon. It didn’t bed well so I used a heat stripper gun to encourage it at the nose and along the top. This got everything too hot and I damaged the paintwork and the mould: This is the inside of the moulding, so you can see where the paint has gone: That said, I think I have two workable halves: I need to to repair and re-prime the masters. I need to use lots of staples and tape around the edges and make sure the staples are bedded down well to prevent leaks, which is why the noses didn’t bed down. I also need to accept that if I don’t get the temperature right I need to let it go. The A3 plastic costs £3-odd a sheet, but it costs me a lot more in time and effort and materials to recover from bad moulding. Living and learning! Thanks for looking, Adrian 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 After some light chores I was released on parole back to the bench. A little trimming later: I’m very pleased with that! Now I can start my build... Thanks for looking, Adrian 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, AdrianMF said: Now I can start my build... Excellent! Presumably they will need quite a bit of internal bracing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 3 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Living and learning! We are also. You’re on your way, Adrian. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 I thought I’d better compare it to the plans. It’s about 2mm too high due to the thickness of the card, although that might come down with a bit more sanding of the mating surfaces. However, the nose, upper and lower profiles have been more or less preserved: Thanks for looking, Adrian 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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