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Handley Page O/400- O/700 civil passenger transport


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1 hour ago, Moa said:

Due to the extensive windowed surface on the original plane (in the full cabin examples), the interior will be quite visible once the model is completed (of course now the model is missing the structural bits in the middle of the window panes):

(Dry run):

 

 

Of course, once you get the wings on and the engine nacelles in place, views of the interior will be limited.

 

 

 

Chris

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Thank you so much for posting the pic of G-IAAC, in a way the lack of markings makes my life easier.

 

The cabin viewed through the window looks wonderful. Raises the bar for me so to speak. I did read somewhere that the interior of G-IAAC was lined in pink satin(there's a surprise) so I'm at least painting that pink too. At the moment I'm working on the wings (now under control but I seem to have lost a piece, has to be somewhere, worst case scenario I'll have to scratch a new lower wing lower section, hi hum) I've also started on the fuselage, difficult to allign everything but again under control. 

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I am stuck with a supplies issue.

After doing a section to restore the appropriate wing "ribbing" with the Tamiya masking tape I had at hand (4mm width more or less), I realized that the gap they left for the primer was too narrow, so I wanted to buy a 3.5mm-width masking tape, which resulted to be more difficult than I thought.

I finally got one on the Net, but upon arrival it was obvious that the quality was despicable, and the edges, instead of being neat and sharp, were frayed and fuzzy, thus not adequate for obtaining a nice clean line:

IMG_7026+%25281280x960%2529.jpg

 

Does anyone know about a GOOD 3.5mm masking tape?

 

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That looks much like the old Chartpak crepe paper tape, a lifetime supply of which I still have from a former career as a draftsman. Precisely cut and easily conforms to curves, but a bit fuzzy on the edges.

 

I was going to suggest Aizu Micron tape, a kabuki paper tape like Tamiya's, but the widest width of it is 2.5 mm. But they also make a 1.0 mm width, so you could combine the two, I suppose.

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5 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

That looks much like the old Chartpak crepe paper tape, a lifetime supply of which I still have from a former career as a draftsman. Precisely cut and easily conforms to curves, but a bit fuzzy on the edges.

 

I was going to suggest Aizu Micron tape, a kabuki paper tape like Tamiya's, but the widest width of it is 2.5 mm. But they also make a 1.0 mm width, so you could combine the two, I suppose.

That's a nice tip, Michael, but having to apply hundreds of them, and then double, is not a prospect I am looking forward to.

I have a drawer full with different washi and tamiya tape, and even some plastic adhesive tape. None is near 3.5 mm.

Darn, darn, and recontradarn Airfix overstated rib detail.

Thanks anyway for pitching in in any case.

Cheers

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Marklo said:

Now I've taken a different tack with my ribs but might I suggest the alternative of plastic weld and 10 thou strip? Rather than tape and primer.

Not my route. Looks like a nightmare.

I like clean models.

I have done the tape before and it's crisp and elegant.

Just have to get the right size tape.

 

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Can I suggest my way of doing rib tapes. I find it much easier and faster. I use Windsor and Newton acrylic artists White ink applied with a draftsman's bow type ruling pen. Here is an example on my first build of a resin kit of a 1/48th Klemm L.25 which I am converting to a British Klemm Swallow 1. (for Stackton) I filled all the scribed kit tapes and applied my own. The wing aft of the rear spar was fabric covered and the wing forwards was ply covered. I first give the wing a coat of 'rattle can' acrylic Primer filler or White or Grey primer car paint before doing the ribs. When I've done the rib tapes and they are dry I waft another fine coat of primer over the top so that it covers, but does not affect the tapes. When this has dried you can put other finish coats on. The rib tapes in the pictures were one application only. In other words just one stroke of the pen for each tape.

 

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You can see my favorite pen in the top photo. The ink is thick enough to stand out and if you get it wrong you just wipe it off with a damp cloth before it dries. It dries quite quickly. I use a number of guides made out of plastic or thin alloy sheet and even the steel rule in the picture. All my guides are backed with a strip of 1 mm thick tourniquet rubber, recessed from the edges so the ink doesn't creep under the guide.. I discovered this lovely stuff when the nurses were punching needles into me over the last two years and I was given my first piece as a souvenir and I have subsequently bought a roll from a medical suppliers. It's 1 mm thick and 20 mm wide and several metres long. I no longer clamp lamination's or fuselage halves, I just glue and wrap a strip of lightly stretched Blue rubber evenly round it.

 

The wheels, seats, and engines are my castings, as at this stage I can't make up my mind if it's going to have a Pobjoy or Salmson engine.

 

I did the rib tapes on my Hawker Hart masters this way.

 

John

 

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49 minutes ago, John Aero said:

Can I suggest my way of doing rib tapes. I find it much easier and faster. I use Windsor and Newton acrylic artists White ink applied with a draftsman's bow type ruling pen. Here is an example on my first build of a resin kit of a 1/48th Klemm L.25 which I am converting to a British Klemm Swallow 1. (for Stackton) I filled all the scribed kit tapes and applied my own. The wing aft of the rear spar was fabric covered and the wing forwards was ply covered. I first give the wing a coat of 'rattle can' acrylic Primer filler or White or Grey primer car paint before doing the ribs. When I've done the rib tapes and they are dry I waft another fine coat of primer over the top so that it covers, but does not affect the tapes. When this has dried you can put other finish coats on. The rib tapes in the pictures were one application only. In other words just one stroke of the pen for each tape.

 

You can see my favorite pen in the top photo. The ink is thick enough to stand out and if you get it wrong you just wipe it off with a damp cloth before it dries. It dries quite quickly. I use a number of guides made out of plastic or thin alloy sheet and even the steel rule in the picture. All my guides are backed with a strip of 1 mm thick tourniquet rubber, recessed from the edges so the ink doesn't creep under the guide.. I discovered this lovely stuff when the nurses were punching needles into me over the last two years and I was given my first piece as a souvenir and I have subsequently bought a roll from a medical suppliers. It's 1 mm thick and 20 mm wide and several metres long. I no longer clamp lamination's or fuselage halves, I just glue and wrap a strip of lightly stretched Blue rubber evenly round it.

 

The wheels, seats, and engines are my castings, as at this stage I can't make up my mind if it's going to have a Pobjoy or Salmson engine.

 

I did the rib tapes on my Hawker Hart masters this way.

 

John

 

 

That's really beautiful work, John!

The technique is sound, and it's evident that in capable hands produces excellent results.

I appreciate you taking the time to post this helpful tip.

Still, too messy and cumbersome for me, as I would have first to learn to use those instruments (I am Rötring-era chap).

Remember, we are talking hundreds of ribs.

I will wait until the end of the world for that 3.5 mm tape.

Why? because I start to apply the tape underneath the leading edge, guided by the untouched detail on the bottom of the wing, go all the way over the wing, and end up on the other side of the trailing edge, aligning again with the existing detail, no measures, no rulers, no spills, no smears, no fear of marring anything.

You apply the tape one bit after the other, reposition as many times you need, and then one session with primer, light sanding and Presto!

That's the way I like it.

 

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Moa, whilst I follow your rational, it's fine if you can find the suitable tape.  As you know, I used to use a fine silver 1/64" or 1/32"tape which was available in the UK and the States but fresh stocks are now unobtainable as it appears to be out of production.

 

The problem too with hoarding tape is the adhesive drys out, of which I've got loads.

 

Perhaps the Klemm wasn't the best illustration as there's not a lot to show. but believe me my method is fast. We will have to hold a  World Rib Tape Application Speed competition. Now that'll draw the crowds.😜

 

John

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Another suggestion my neje laser engraver cost €90 and cuts masking sheets just fine. (Bought from Gearbest I went for the 1w version but there are higher output models) it’s easy to use, you just feed it a bmp file and then set the width or height. The max size is 39mm x 39mm now at the moment I’m using it for seats (so far I’ve made 16 seats for the hp and a nice bucket seat for my Snark) but it strikes me it would be perfect for cutting rib tape masks to order.

 

48908129983_07b2bcb5d4_z.jpg

Early trials, Celtic bosses for some IAC projects I', working on.

 

48880010538_c6299b2d83_w.jpg

The beast itself. Made from repurposed DVD drive mechanisms so you're also saving the planet a little bit.

 

49068841092_3d23cfe4b3_m.jpg 49068840687_3ec5da06f0_m.jpg

My Seat

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Moa, do you have the option of using a cutting plotter?
If so, you can prepare a mask made of oracal foil for the entire sash, transfer it using a transport foil, remove unwanted elements and spray the ribs with e.g. a Mr. Surfacer. Fast and effective method.

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I think we may be all overthinking this one.  What Moa's looking for is hundreds of ribs worth of 3.5mm tape (like Tamiya's yellow kabuki tape).

 

Why not cut them yourself?  Tamiya 87063 is the 40mm wide roll.  On a nice clean cutting mat, lay down some strips long enough to go around the wing, mark off 3.5mm widths, get a fresh blade and a steel straight edge and slice away.  Each piece of tape will yield 11 ribs if all cut perfectly, so lets say 6 or so from the first few, hopefully getting up to 10 after a few attempts.   A full roll of 87063 is 18 meters long, so I doubt more than 1 would be needed.

 

A hundred ribs are then only 10 perfect slicing sessions.

 

Sounds tedious I know, but I've done similar.  It's not so bad, and you'll probably be able to knock out more than needed so you can get picky about which ones you use and which ones get sent to discount Harry's Aircraft Emporium......

 

My 2 cents.

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9 hours ago, O_Pablo said:

Moa, do you have the option of using a cutting plotter?
If so, you can prepare a mask made of oracal foil for the entire sash, transfer it using a transport foil, remove unwanted elements and spray the ribs with e.g. a Mr. Surfacer. Fast and effective method.

Thanks for your suggestion O_Pablo

No, I don't have access to a plotter or laser cutter as suggested above by Marklo.

Both have the potential to be great help for certain modeling tasks, but I try to keep as far away from computers (you will have to input your design somehow) and figuring out technical shenanigans as possible. I like to do things with my hands, rather than with computer-tied devices, and I am not fond of a future when we will design a model with a keyboard and 3D print it in color.

I want to simplify my modeling life, that's why (I mentioned this before somewhere) I don't cast resin or have a lathe.

The small modeling space I have is already cluttered, and my airbrush is already in the laundry room for lack of better space. I paint in the kitchen, windows open, covering the area, when nobody is in the house.

I surely don't want yet another piece of equipment or outsource projects.

 

I am an ascetic modeling monk, with aspirations of becoming a troglodyte.

 

But I do appreciate and am grateful for all those suggestions you guys posted.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Bronzemeister said:

I think we may be all overthinking this one.  What Moa's looking for is hundreds of ribs worth of 3.5mm tape (like Tamiya's yellow kabuki tape).

 

Why not cut them yourself?  Tamiya 87063 is the 40mm wide roll.  On a nice clean cutting mat, lay down some strips long enough to go around the wing, mark off 3.5mm widths, get a fresh blade and a steel straight edge and slice away.  Each piece of tape will yield 11 ribs if all cut perfectly, so lets say 6 or so from the first few, hopefully getting up to 10 after a few attempts.   A full roll of 87063 is 18 meters long, so I doubt more than 1 would be needed.

 

A hundred ribs are then only 10 perfect slicing sessions.

 

Sounds tedious I know, but I've done similar.  It's not so bad, and you'll probably be able to knock out more than needed so you can get picky about which ones you use and which ones get sent to discount Harry's Aircraft Emporium......

 

My 2 cents.

I know the intention of all of you is to devise different ways to torture my modeling soul :whip:

I am sure you understood the use, but just to clarify in case others read your post, the tapes are not the ribs, they mask the space between ribs, leaving a gap, later sprayed with primer to create a subtle relief (ribs). They don't go around the wing, the detail is credible underneath, they are applied on top but aligned with the detail underneath, via wrapping around just a few mm on each end, again aligning with present detail there.

 

My friend Sønke from Volkania suggested the use of a particle accelerator beam bouncing on swamp gas, re-directed by the inversion layer and passing through a block formed by mixing Jell-o and Vegemite. This would insert genetic material into the molecular structure of the kit's plastic which will then develop the ribs itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Moa said:

Thanks for your suggestion O_Pablo

No, I don't have access to a plotter or laser cutter as suggested above by Marklo.

Both have the potential to be great help for certain modeling tasks, but I try to keep as far away from computers (you will have to input your design somehow) and figuring out technical shenanigans as possible. I like to do things with my hands, rather than with computer-tied devices, and I am not fond of a future when we will design a model with a keyboars and 3D print it in color.

I want to simplify my modeling life, that's why (I mentioned this before somewhere) I don't cast resin or have a lathe.

The small modeling space I have is already cluttered, and my airbrush is already in the laundry room for lack of better space. I paint in the kitchen, windows open, covering the area, when nobody is in the house.

I surely don't want yet another piece of equipment or outsource projects.

 

I am an ascetic modeling monk, with aspirations of becoming a troglodyte.

 

But I do appreciate and am grateful for all those suggestions you guys posted.

Cheers

I understand!
as an architect, I spend more than 10 hours a day in front of a computer, also having access to the equipment I proposed. Unfortunately, not having time to build models ;-(.
The thread you are running is interesting for me and my colleague, because I am also preparing to valorise my HP 0/400 but for the 0/100 version. My colleague wants to build a conversion to the civil version for the resin HP 0/400 in scale 1/48 from CSM.

Regards

Paul

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Moa I think your friends suggestion with the particle accelerator is by far the most practical and it behoves you to suspend work on the HP and start building one :)

 

On  the computer thing I agree somewhat but rationalise the laser cutter as being the equivalent of using pe parts. Probably an arbitrary line I know, but I have forsworn using 3D printed parts in any model as the making is half(at least) the fun.

 

 

 

 

Btw the input is fairly simple as it will take BMP files created with Paint, 

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9 hours ago, Moa said:

My friend Sønke from Volkania suggested the use of a particle accelerator beam bouncing on swamp gas, re-directed by the inversion layer and passing through a block formed by mixing Jell-o and Vegemite. This would insert genetic material into the molecular structure of the kit's plastic which will then develop the ribs itself.

 

Hey! That procedure is classified, buddy! The Black Helicopters will be hovering over your location (and Sønke's) soon, and The Men in Black will be paying you a visit!

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19 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

Hey! That procedure is classified, buddy! The Black Helicopters will be hovering over your location (and Sønke's) soon, and The Men in Black will be paying you a visit!

I fear nothing, as you well know Sönke has his famous Death Ray.

He actually uses Men in Black paste to make marzipan.

But now you have scared the @Martian Hale, who keeps running from them, after that steamy episode with Serleena that ended up pasted all over social media.

 

 

 

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I've just been evaluating  Moa's way of masking and then spraying paint on to fill the gaps, so that when the tape is removed, it leaves a raised paint rib tape. What I'm doing is almost the same but without the masking or spraying. I'm applying the paint (acrylic ink, whats the difference) with a pen of which the ink line is adjustable in width to suit the scale. The line also does not have a hard edge which it does if it is masked. The guides are all simplicity it'self to make.

 

Any pen or pencil which has a tapered tip will, when run along a straight edge, which does not flex and when laid on an aerofoil, the line drawn will waver as the tip rises and falls with the curve. I only use the type of push feed mechanical pencils of which the lead is passed through a parallel tube at the tip for marking out the rib positions against a drawing. A flexible guide with a backing recessed at the edges will be a constant height on the aerofoil.

 

Similarly, I file the back of the fixed blade of my drawing pen so the blade is thin and parallel in thickness, but make sure you do not damage the tips.

 

Often wing ribs are not spaced equally and a case in point is the Tiger Moth wing in which the spacing is' all over the shop'. The reason for this is the internal cross bracing, between the spars and compression tubes or ribs. In a constant chord wing the ribs are usually fabricated on a standard jig and so if they are spaced evenly then at some point the rib vertical members will get in the way of the tightly drawn wires, so it's cheaper to move the ribs along the spars a bit at the conflict point than modify the rib. Sometimes the ribs are brought closer together because of local strength requirements.

 

Please file the above under splendidly useless information.

 

John

 

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1 hour ago, John Aero said:

The line also does not have a hard edge which it does if it is masked

Dear John, as pointed out above somewhere, you light-sand the primer to your heart's content once you have removed the tape, blending-in the detail as much or as little as you want: no unsightly pronounced steps or too-hard edges.

 

Yours truly:

Jack the Ribber

 

 

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