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1/72 - Lockheed (A)C-130H & J Hercules by Zvezda - released


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6 hours ago, tonyot said:

That is a shame Jan,...... hopfully Xtradecal will re release their RAF Hercules stencil and national marking sheet for a grey and green Herk then?

 

Cheers mate

                    Tony

 

Tony,

 

I feel sure Xtradecal will do a re-print or perhaps even do a new sheet which includes RAF C-130 markings in general including the walkway lines. It would be nice if they could do some of the early C-130s with Unit Crests before the centralized pooling of aircraft at Lyneham became the norm.

 

 

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I finally managed to get some time this evening to do a bit of dry fitting of the major components. Looks very promising. My concerns regarding the forward fuselage inserts were unfounded....they fit like a glove. The 'mainspar' wing section fit to the fuselage is also sublime.....the engineering on this kit is very impressive so far . The mainplane arrangement does seem to address the weakness with the other C-130 kits but I will still investigate the feasibility of fitting an additional plasticard spar to add extra strength.  

 

I will, however, have to find a suitably sized observation radome to fit over the forward escape hatch in order to reproduce that found on XV195 when I rode that bird on a memorable Red Flag sortie back in 1985.

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57 minutes ago, Tiger331 said:

I finally managed to get some time this evening to do a bit of dry fitting of the major components. Looks very promising. My concerns regarding the forward fuselage inserts were unfounded....they fit like a glove. The 'mainspar' wing section fit to the fuselage is also sublime.....the engineering on this kit is very impressive so far . The mainplane arrangement does seem to address the weakness with the other C-130 kits but I will still investigate the feasibility of fitting an additional plasticard spar to add extra strength.  

 

I will, however, have to find a suitably sized observation radome to fit over the forward escape hatch in order to reproduce that found on XV195 when I rode that bird on a memorable Red Flag sortie back in 1985.

I have seen a post on fb that shows a very strange aerofoil section on the wings,any chance you could post a picture on here.

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1 hour ago, Tiger331 said:

I will, however, have to find a suitably sized observation radome to fit over the forward escape hatch in order to reproduce that found on XV195 when I rode that bird on a memorable Red Flag sortie back in 1985.

 

As I recall, the C-130Ks had a slightly larger hatch than did the H-models, due to the RAF requirement for an astrodome. This caused a cost increase, because the fuselage structure surrounding the re-purposed escape hatch had to be redesigned. Within a few years, the Navigators Union was overruled and eventually the astrodome was deleted but of course it still required a non-standard replacement hatch at further expense!

 

It's probably not significant in 1/72nd scale, though.

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20 hours ago, tonyot said:

That is a shame Jan,...... hopfully Xtradecal will re release their RAF Hercules stencil and national marking sheet for a grey and green Herk then?

Cheers mate

                    Tony

Hi Tony, you know waaay more abort Hercs than I ever will, but I thought the walkway areas were outlined in yellow for at least a portion of their RAF service?

 

12 minutes ago, KevinK said:

Within a few years, the Navigators Union was overruled and eventually the astrodome was deleted but of course it still required a non-standard replacement hatch at further expense!

The astrodomes could be removed and refitted right up to the end of their service lives Kevin.  It is a big old item, which I don't think the spares box will yield so hopefully an aftermarket one will turn up.

 

9152740329_66048e6b14_h.jpg

Hercules C.3 XV188 27 Jun 13 by James Thomas, on Flickr

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12 minutes ago, 71chally said:

It is a big old item, which I don't think the spares box will yield so hopefully an aftermarket one will turn up.

 

I hope so, too. Doesn't the original Airfix C-130K come with one? Although it must be pretty thick and a vacform would be better.

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1 hour ago, KevinK said:

 

As I recall, the C-130Ks had a slightly larger hatch than did the H-models, due to the RAF requirement for an astrodome. This caused a cost increase, because the fuselage structure surrounding the re-purposed escape hatch had to be redesigned. Within a few years, the Navigators Union was overruled and eventually the astrodome was deleted but of course it still required a non-standard replacement hatch at further expense!

 

It's probably not significant in 1/72nd scale, though.


Not sure if your info is accurate, I would think the hatch was the same size on all Hercs and the astrodome is easy to change, takes seconds. But I don’t know Brit Hercs so they may have asked for a different size.

 

It wasn’t just an escape hatch, we went out that hatch every flight to preflight or post-check the top of the aircraft.

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3 minutes ago, Scooby said:

Not sure if your info is accurate, I would think the hatch was the same size on all Hercs and the astrodome is easy to change, takes seconds. But I don’t know Brit Hercs so they may have asked for a different size.

 

I've not measured one, but I was told this by my Dad, who was Wing Pilot at Lyneham in the '70s. He said that the RAF requirement to be able to install the standard sextant for astronavigation led to a need for a slightly larger astrodome than the standard hatch could accommodate.

 

It was just one of a number of changes from the H-model to the K: probably the worst one was the Treasury decision not to pay Lockheed $18,000 per aircraft for anti-fouling treatment inside the fuel tanks, on the grounds that RAF fuel contained an antifungal inhibitor known as FSII and so the treatment was not necessary. Of course, since the Hercules went all over the world, not just RAF bases, fungal growth took place in the tanks, the organisms excreting an acid which ate away at the integral tank skins and led eventually to the partial rewinging of the fleet - centresections - at much greater cost. Marshall's of Cambridge did the work and the rebuilt centresections were a little stiffer than the Lockheed originals. This, along with the RAF operating at 330 kt cruise, rather than the USAF's 300 kt, caused accelerated fatigue in the mid-wing as stresses were transferred outboard, and led to the eventual rebuild of the mid-wing as well.

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On 11/1/2020 at 4:04 PM, KevinK said:


I've not measured one, but I was told this by my Dad, who was Wing Pilot at Lyneham in the '70s. He said that the RAF requirement to be able to install the standard sextant for astronavigation led to a need for a slightly larger astrodome than the standard hatch could accommodate.

We had standard sextants in our Hercs too in Canada and we had a standard hatch. I’m not saying your info is wrong, but wow it would been added cost to enlarge that opening.

Edited by Scooby
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3 hours ago, 71chally said:

Hi Tony, you know waaay more abort Hercs than I ever will, but I thought the walkway areas were outlined in yellow for at least a portion of their RAF service?

 

Hiya Bud,.... I wouldn`t say that,.... but the walk way lines on grey and green camouflaged RAF Herks were yellow with red hatchings. Not sure about the Light Stone and Dark Earth initial camo,....in its early glossy form it didn`t appear to have any,......but the later matt version could have done mind you?

 

Photos of the upper wings in these schemes are hard to find on line and are not conclusive, but they do appear in books and the hatchings are very evident.  . The walkways lines changed on the later grey aircraft and then overall green.

 

5ca0f8481aa90a4d240b27296d61ced3.jpg

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12-1.jpg

 

scan0001.jpg

herk-xv200.jpg

 

vp9ai9-zpse9xtf5oj.jpg

 

These are the decals I was talking about,.....note the red hatching;

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/xtradecal-x030-72-hercules-wing-walks--148965

 

All the best mate

                         Tony

 

Edited by tonyot
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4 hours ago, Tiger331 said:

I finally managed to get some time this evening to do a bit of dry fitting of the major components. Looks very promising. My concerns regarding the forward fuselage inserts were unfounded....they fit like a glove. The 'mainspar' wing section fit to the fuselage is also sublime.....the engineering on this kit is very impressive so far . The mainplane arrangement does seem to address the weakness with the other C-130 kits but I will still investigate the feasibility of fitting an additional plasticard spar to add extra strength.  

 

I will, however, have to find a suitably sized observation radome to fit over the forward escape hatch in order to reproduce that found on XV195 when I rode that bird on a memorable Red Flag sortie back in 1985.

I used a bulged window from a italeri Chinook once and it did the job and looked right..

 

@71challythose Hercs (grey/green camo) did had a yellow walkway but with red stripes..

 

By the way I measured my Attack squadron/ Brengun Hercules flaps for fitting on the Zvezda Hercules and it looks like it that it can be made to fit !

I am assured that this won’t be a major surgery but as always measure first before you cut!

The outboard flaps have the exact size and the smaller inboard are tad to wide ( about a millimeter) so nothing major...

 

 

cheers, Jan

 

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8 hours ago, 26Decals said:

If any one has  reference photos of the wing walks I can do them :)

Hi Ray, hard to find close ups of the walkways, however the red dashes were to the outside of the yellow or black. From a distance, the red almost disappears. Also, Zvezda’s walkways don’t dodge the refuelling probe like the photo illustrates. Perhaps separate red dashes in strips and curves would then allow the modeller a choice of black and red or yellow and red, depending upon the colour choice for the camouflage. Although I don’t have my copies of the Zvezda Herk yet, it appears as though they have done them with a large area of clear carrier film, for ease of application. I would prefer to apply the strips separately myself, but that’s just my opinion. Hopefully this helps.

514CA14D-D697-4E8A-A6AD-F31A77093C23 C2C4748C-BD7D-4C4A-848B-C53AE5DEC4E4 74C7AC63-7E86-41B7-84FF-B4A626C8EE7B D1B07E21-E467-4F23-983B-DDB125335F5C

 

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9 hours ago, MrB17 said:

Hi Ray, hard to find close ups of the walkways, however the red dashes were to the outside of the yellow or black. From a distance, the red almost disappears. Also, Zvezda’s walkways don’t dodge the refuelling probe like the photo illustrates. Perhaps separate red dashes in strips and curves would then allow the modeller a choice of black and red or yellow and red, depending upon the colour choice for the camouflage. Although I don’t have my copies of the Zvezda Herk yet, it appears as though they have done them with a large area of clear carrier film, for ease of application. I would prefer to apply the strips separately myself, but that’s just my opinion. Hopefully this helps.

514CA14D-D697-4E8A-A6AD-F31A77093C23 C2C4748C-BD7D-4C4A-848B-C53AE5DEC4E4 74C7AC63-7E86-41B7-84FF-B4A626C8EE7B D1B07E21-E467-4F23-983B-DDB125335F5C

 

Ok I will do a sheet of both yellow/red and black/red wing walks as strips :)

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10 hours ago, MrB17 said:

hard to find close ups of the walkways, however the red dashes were to the outside of the yellow or black. From a distance, the red almost disappears.

 

I'm no expert on these, I just look closely at available photos. I don't know if I'm seeing things, but there looks to me to be Red hatching on top of the Yellow in the first photo you put up of 292 head-on, on the wings particularly outboard of the inboard engines? Was it varied (the hatching)?

 

Whilst looking I came across this photo online, which allows you to zoom in a fair bit and it looks (to me, in places) like the hatching is on top of the yellow here also?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146673712@N06/50527717296/

 

Cheers Bob.

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Have worked on C130 k's,h's and j's for the last 20 odd years,and i can categoricaly say that the escape hatches refered to above are all the same size on each of them.Seals and shims are ths same part numbers,

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17 hours ago, tonyot said:

but the walk way lines on grey and green camouflaged RAF Herks were yellow with red hatchings. Not sure about the Light Stone and Dark Earth initial camo,....in its early glossy form it didn`t appear to have any,......but the later matt version could have done mind you?

 

Photos of the upper wings in these schemes are hard to find on line and are not conclusive, but they do appear in books and the hatchings are very evident.  . The walkways lines changed on the later grey aircraft and then overall green.

I was pondering the walkway lines, if any, for my RAF Lt Stone / Dk Earth version. Just checked the RAF Hercules article in Airfix Magazine for Nov 1967 in the thread below, which details the paint scheme applied to the first Hercules to reach the RAF, drawn up with the cooperation of RAF Air Support Command and Marshalls and based on study of XV191 of 36 Sq in August 1967.  As such It is a great contemporary source and, I imagine, very authoratitive on this scheme (although unfortunately nothing given on interior colours, undercarriage and on the props other than 6" tips in Golden Yellow).  Helpfully, it does say the walkway markings were 0.75" dots on approx 24" pitch in Canary Yellow, with the drawings giving approximate positions. Photographic evidence would be difficult to come by as I doubt these would show up except in close-up. Question is, is it worth bothering with such tiny dots or just stick with matt finish walkways against the gloss? :hmmm:

 

 

Rich 

 

 

Edited by RichG
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3 hours ago, fatalbert said:

Have worked on C130 k's,h's and j's for the last 20 odd years,and i can categoricaly say that the escape hatches refered to above are all the same size on each of them.Seals and shims are ths same part numbers,

 

Thanks for the correction. I must have misremembered what I thought I was told some 50 years ago. My apologies to all.

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1 minute ago, KevinK said:

 

Thanks for the correction. I must have misremembered what I thought I was told some 50 years ago. My apologies to all.

No worries there as your answer did gave us the right answer by someone wo can give you a conclusive answer....how about that for an answer😉

 

cheers, Jan

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3 hours ago, Stephen said:

I notice that the kit is #1 at Hannants.

 

I see that they have now sold out.......the kit was in for less than a week.

 

I returned to my LMS yesterday to buy my second copy. For obvious reasons, their most popular sellers tend to be for Russian AFVs and aircraft so they are slightly bemused with the sudden interest in the C-130 kit......I was not the only one buying. I have little doubt the price of the kit had much to do with it....It really is fantastic value over here.

 

 

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20 hours ago, fatalbert said:

I have seen a post on fb that shows a very strange aerofoil section on the wings,any chance you could post a picture on here.

 

I'll see if I can post something......I must say, it looks good to me and Jen (who is obviously an expert on the real thing having maintained them for many years) has also mentioned this in one of her posts on this thread.

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Something I noticed about the kit options, is the two styles of tail extensions (beaver tail/platypus). I can’t seem to find any photos of RAF C-130K’s using the US style shorter rounded extension (platypus). CAF/RCAF and RAF earlier Herk’s as well as other some other countries, used the longer extension (beaver tail). The longer one in the kit is the more modern type, seen on late H’s and J’s. The earlier beaver tail option is not included in the kit. A resin aftermarket beaver tail would be nice, if anyone is looking into it.

AF211F06-8C17-49AA-9A8C-1718D1E4C2EB

 

74DD9BB1-FF5B-4678-BA3A-01A9E18B97A8 A8880220-5901-4277-9CF3-C68DE0282401 0DFCC0D8-0FBC-43F2-839C-D50ABDA20C0A

 

Edited by MrB17
Missed info
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8 minutes ago, MrB17 said:

Something I noticed about the kit options, is the two styles of tail extensions (beaver tail/platypus). I can’t seem to find any photos of RAF C-130K’s using the US style shorter rounded extension (platypus). CAF/RCAF and RAF earlier Herk’s as well as other some other countries, used the longer extension (beaver tail). The longer one in the kit is the more modern type, seen on late H’s and J’s. The earlier beaver tail option is not included in the kit. A resin aftermarket beaver tail would be nice, if anyone is looking into it.

AF211F06-8C17-49AA-9A8C-1718D1E4C2EB

 

74DD9BB1-FF5B-4678-BA3A-01A9E18B97A8 A8880220-5901-4277-9CF3-C68DE0282401 0DFCC0D8-0FBC-43F2-839C-D50ABDA20C0A

 

 

Yes........well spotted. I must admit that I did not pick this up on my initial review of the kit contents. TBH I don't think it would take much to modify the longer tail option provided in the kit, removing the squared off section with DAS and replacing it with some plasticard/putty and a couple of nav lights......then again, I'm sure Freightdog or Quickboost will oblige us relatively quickly.

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