1/72 - Lockheed (A)C-130H & J Hercules by Zvezda - released

[MrB17]

9 minutes ago, Tiger331 said:

 

Yes........well spotted. I must admit that I did not pick this up on my initial review of the kit contents. TBH I don't think it would take much to modify the longer tail option provided in the kit, removing the squared off section with DAS and replacing it with some plasticard/putty and a couple of nav lights......then again, I'm sure Freightdog or Quickboost will oblige us relatively quickly.

Agreed, I will have to scratch build a CPI to insert in the top of my Canadian Herk anyway, as I doubt anyone will do that option in resin. Then I will have to do a normal one for my C-130K in dark green and grey over light grey. Not a biggie, just thought I would point it out. The kit also has the rectangular E style dry bay access on the wing, behind #1 and #4. I believe this is accurate for a K as well. H’s from the factory would have the same oval ones as #2 and #3. Also, if an E was upgraded to H status, it would retain the E style dry bay access panels, as they are part of the milled aluminium box spar and it wouldn’t be feasible to replace the entire outer wing box spar for the sake of the dry bay access panels. Most modellers wouldn’t even notice that anyway, only those who spent time up and in there, would notice, and those with a keen eye.

[71chally]

18 hours ago, MrB17 said:

 

  

 

 

2 hours ago, keithjs said:

On Tony's post above, do my eyes deceive me, or is the walkway 'area' on the Light Stone and Dark Earth XV177 matt, and the rest of the aircraft gloss?

I agree, I take it that is factory finish aswel in that picture.

Also notice in the shot of 292 above how the finish is different within the walkways, almost like all of it was repainted apart from the walkway areas.

 

Good spot MrB17 regarding that tail cone business.

[MrB17]

28 minutes ago, 71chally said:

 

I agree, I take it that is factory finish aswel in that picture.

Also notice in the shot of 292 above how the finish is different within the walkways, almost like all of it was repainted apart from the walkway areas.

 

Good spot MrB17 regarding that tail cone business.

Concerning walkways, I only have firsthand experience with the grey used on the early CC-130’s. It was rubbery and had a fine silica component that would sparkle in the sun. In my experience painting 1/1 scale aircraft, there were different grades (fine, medium, coarse) of silica sand that could be added to any colour of paint. The only thing was, it had to be rolled on, the coarser silica would quickly ruin the spray equipment. It could also be used with a clear coat in the same manner. This would make the walkways much flatter and lighter than the surrounding paint. That said, I have no idea what material is used on the camouflaged C-130’s, although I suspect the same is true in the sense of a grippier flatter finish within the walkways. Dirt and grime tend to be somewhat difficult to remove from these areas as well. Your idea that the walkways would be masked off when camouflage was redone over existing paint is plausible, however all of the aircraft I painted (largest was a Grumman Albatross) were stripped down to bare aluminium to both save weight and detect corrosion. This was regardless of whether it was just a repaint or a full restoration. On a model, masking the walkways after decals and clear coat with low tack masking tape right up to the inside of the walkway lines, and spraying with a dead flat clear, would replicate the effect quite well.

[Stilwell]

> I agree, I take it that is factory finish aswel in that picture.

 

I understand that at least some of the RAF C-130s arrived in a natural (or lacquered) metal finish. Does anyone know if any arrived painted in the stone '/ earth / black scheme, or were they all painted in the UK after delivery?

 

> On Tony's post above, do my eyes deceive me, or is the walkway 'area' on the Light Stone and Dark Earth XV177 matt, and the rest of the aircraft gloss?

 

I suspect the RAF preferred "high friction" or "non-slip" finish or similar rather than "matt", but Tony's picture does show it well. Or at least, the comparative effects when wet, given it looks like it rained shortly before the photo was taken. Interesting that the photo confirms that the camouflage colours extended onto the upper surface of the flaps. Does anyone know if this continued on the green / grey scheme?

 

Now I have a kit, I see that the three differfent noses are differentiated by the number of raised strips - lightning conducting or stiffening, I assume. Either none, three on top and three underneath, or many. I like that they have illustrated this in the instructions, as two of mine were off the sprue when the kit arrived.

 

  Jonathan.

[MrB17]

7 minutes ago, Stilwell said:

> I agree, I take it that is factory finish aswel in that picture.

 

I understand that at least some of the RAF C-130s arrived in a natural (or lacquered) metal finish. Does anyone know if any arrived painted in the stone '/ earth / black scheme, or were they all painted in the UK after delivery?

 

> On Tony's post above, do my eyes deceive me, or is the walkway 'area' on the Light Stone and Dark Earth XV177 matt, and the rest of the aircraft gloss?

 

I suspect the RAF preferred "high friction" or "non-slip" finish or similar rather than "matt", but Tony's picture does show it well. Or at least, the comparative effects when wet, given it looks like it rained shortly before the photo was taken. Interesting that the photo confirms that the camouflage colours extended onto the upper surface of the flaps. Does anyone know if this continued on the green / grey scheme?

 

Now I have a kit, I see that the three differfent noses are differentiated by the number of raised strips - lightning conducting or stiffening, I assume. Either none, three on top and three underneath, or many. I like that they have illustrated this in the instructions, as two of mine were off the sprue when the kit arrived.

 

  Jonathan.

 

[71chally]

38 minutes ago, Stilwell said:

I understand that at least some of the RAF C-130s arrived in a natural (or lacquered) metal finish. Does anyone know if any arrived painted in the stone '/ earth / black scheme, or were they all painted in the UK after delivery?

 

 Jonathan.

I should have been clearer there, I meant factory fresh from work or refinish at Marshalls.

I thought they were all delivered from Lockheed in natural metal and then repainted and prepared by Marshalls, but could be wrong.

[Stilwell]

41 minutes ago, MrB17 said:

>Interesting that the photo confirms that the camouflage colours extended onto the upper surface of the flaps. Does anyone know if this continued on the green / grey scheme?

 

= Yes.

Thanks for that photo, MrB17.

 

> I thought they were all delivered from Lockheed in natural metal and then repainted and prepared by Marshalls, but could be wrong.

 

Which may prompt the question of whether the finish changed when an aircraft was repainted at an RAF base (Lyneham, obviously, but I understand they were based at Thorney Island as well:

to begin with (yellow prop tips confirmed)).

Assuming they did full reprays at the operating base, or just touch-ups, and sent them back to Marshalls for a full repaint.

 

    Jonathan.

[71chally]

And don't forget RAF Colerne, which was the Herc maintenance base in those days.

 

Some nice pictures here of early RAF Hercules, you can zoom in on the images.

Notice the first image completely backs up what MrB17 says about the walkway area finish

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=hercules&pageSize=60&media-records=records-with-media&style=list&filters[webCategory][Photographs]=on&filters[periodString][1945-1989]=on

[Stilwell]

http://ukmamsoba.org/obb032919_light.html

24 Squadron briefly at RAF Colerne before moving to Lyneham in 1968.

30 and 47 Squadrons at RAF Fairford before moving to Lyneham in 1971.

36 Squadron at RAF Lyneham before being disbanded in 1975.

242 OCU at RAF Thorney Island from 1967 before moving to Lyneham in 1975 and becoming 57 (Reserve) Squadron in 1992.

70 Squadron at RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus before moving to Lyneham in 1975.

48 Squadron at RAF Changi, Singapore:

:

 

before moving to Lyneham in 1971 and disbanding in 1976.

 

Although this probably gives better detail:

 

   Jonathan.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Stilwell
Link added.

[MrB17]

Thanks @71chally. Those are beautiful high res photos! I never thought to look at IWM for Herk’s. It is a reality check when you find the stuff you worked on, in a museum.

[Flyboy72nd]

Mike Belcher has a CPI in his Sea King upgrades, wonder if the Forces were smart and purchased a batch for many different a/c?????

[Stilwell]

Some decent photos of early C-130Ks here also:

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/86688-raf-c-130k-hercules-c1-question/&tab=comments#comment-1231567

 

  Jonathan.

[Scooby]

4 hours ago, Flyboy72nd said:

Mike Belcher has a CPI in his Sea King upgrades, wonder if the Forces were smart and purchased a batch for many different a/c?????

Definitely not the same. The Canadian Hercules CPI was shaped like an airfoil and had wings, it was spring loaded and squared with rounded corners. I worked Hercs and sadly even recovered one CPI at a fatal crash site.

 

The Sea Kings had a round CPI which was much smaller.

[Scooby]

9 hours ago, MrB17 said:

Agreed, I will have to scratch build a CPI to insert in the top of my Canadian Herk anyway, as I doubt anyone will do that option in resin. Then I will have to do a normal one for my C-130K in dark green and grey over light grey. Not a biggie, just thought I would point it out. The kit also has the rectangular E style dry bay access on the wing, behind #1 and #4. I believe this is accurate for a K as well. H’s from the factory would have the same oval ones as #2 and #3. Also, if an E was upgraded to H status, it would retain the E style dry bay access panels, as they are part of the milled aluminium box spar and it wouldn’t be feasible to replace the entire outer wing box spar for the sake of the dry bay access panels. Most modellers wouldn’t even notice that anyway, only those who spent time up and in there, would notice, and those with a keen eye.

Yeah I noticed when the instructions were released that both the small platypus and large beaver tail were included. I’m still digging out the technical manuals and photos I have of the CPI.

 

The manuals I found were engines and navigation electrical manuals. 
 

The large beaver tail included in the kit appears to have the clipped corners with the rear quad receivers. Once I find the CPI details I will forward to you.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Scooby

[keithjs]

8 hours ago, Stilwell said:

Some decent photos of early C-130Ks here also:

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/86688-raf-c-130k-hercules-c1-question/&tab=comments#comment-1231567

 

  Jonathan.

 

Very useful. Particularly where it states the walkway boundary lines are in yellow dots! That'll be fun replicating those.... Maybe you could modify the kit ones? Only time will tell.

[MrB17]

5 hours ago, Scooby said:

Yeah I noticed when the instructions were released that both the small platypus and large beaver tail were included. I’m still digging out the technical manuals and photos I have of the CPI.

 

The manuals I found were engines and navigation electrical manuals. 
 

The large beaver tail included in the kit appears to have the clipped corners with the rear quad receivers. Once I find the CPI details I will forward to you.

 

 

Thanks Scooby, unfortunately I chucked all of my C-130 maintenance manuals back in the 80’s, I never thought I would need them again.  I was able to get the data for the blue formation lights from C-130Hercules.net, there are some very helpful members on there, and I am waiting for more information. However, about the blue formation lights, there were 9 altogether, 3 on each outer wing and 3 on the fuselage top just forward of the fin strake. The stations for the wing lights are: Outer wing stations 185, 293, and Aileron station 103.5, fuselage stations 671, 701, 731. If you run a straight line from the box spar aft edge at the wing tip attach, to the aft edge of the central fuselage escape hatch, that will give you fore and aft placement at the intersections of the wing stations. The fuselage ones are on the centre line. They are hard to find in photos, but once you know where to look, they are visible. The lenses are cobalt blue about 3” diameter (yet to determine the exact diameter) and flush mounted. I have noticed some raised ones on late RAF Herk’s, but they are in the same positions. In some photos, they appear white, however that is light reflecting off of the glassy smooth upper surface, or black. I have found photos of E’s H’s J’s and K’s, and they all have them, and probably the same on A’ and B’s. Every B-17 had 7 blue teardrop formation lights, 2 on each horizontal, and three on the top of the aft fuselage or fin strake, depending on the version. I am sure most US built military heavies had similar blue formation lights. These small but visible details add extra realism.  I am putting this information here for the benefit of all Herk modellers. Again, unless you have spent some time up on top of the Herk, you probably wouldn’t even notice them.

 I think it wouldn’t be too hard to modify the modern beaver tail in the kit, by chopping off the end and stacking plastic card stock to the correct length. For the earlier Canadian Herk’s, carve out a rectangular recess for the CPI and you don’t need to worry about the underside, as it won’t be visible. The little wings had a bit of dihedral and stuck out over the side of the recess, and were visible from the ground at certain angles. Just need to find a good photo or dimensions for it.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by MrB17

[Truro Model Builder]

My understanding is that all 66 C-130Ks were delivered in natural metal to Marshall's and painted there. I believe they also fitted some of the British specific equipment, but I'm not sure what exactly.

[fatalbert]

9 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said:

My understanding is that all 66 C-130Ks were delivered in natural metal to Marshall's and painted there. I believe they also fitted some of the British specific equipment, but I'm not sure what exactly.

All or most  the J's too.

[Truro Model Builder]

On 11/2/2020 at 6:37 PM, MrB17 said:

Something I noticed about the kit options, is the two styles of tail extensions (beaver tail/platypus). I can’t seem to find any photos of RAF C-130K’s using the US style shorter rounded extension (platypus). CAF/RCAF and RAF earlier Herk’s as well as other some other countries, used the longer extension (beaver tail). The longer one in the kit is the more modern type, seen on late H’s and J’s. The earlier beaver tail option is not included in the kit. A resin aftermarket beaver tail would be nice, if anyone is looking into it.

 

 

  

 

 

Having opened my C-130 this evening () I can confirm that both types of tail extension are included.

 

[Tiger331]

54 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said:

 

Having opened my C-130 this evening () I can confirm that both types of tail extension are included.

 

 

Agreed......but as others have stated, neither of these apply to the RAF C-130s (or many of the others). I have had a look through my old copy of the Modern Combat Aircraft series on the C-130 Hercules (since this book contains many photos of the C-130Hs as they just enter service with various Air Arms). As I suspected, modellers will have to check their references very carefully since there is quite a bit of variance. Of note, it would appear that quite a few of the civilian and military stretched C-130H-30s (but NOT the RAF C.Mk.3s) had the short tail and given that Zvedza appear to be looking at producing the C-130H-30 in the future (see my previous post), I am just wondering if some confusion crept in with the provision of the short tailcone. Many of the early export C-130Hs appear to have the shorter cone but not all of those with the longer tailcone had the squared off tips to house DAS.      

 

OK......a 'quick' check of some photos suggests to me that the Oklahoma ANG and Polish Air Force aircraft can be completed using the longer tailcone (Parts H47/48 at Stage 35). The ROKAF and JASDF aircraft appear to have a much shorter tailcone but I'm not sure that is as short as that portrayed with Parts H50/51, which also lack any of the DAS fitted to at least the latter aircraft. The latter parts appear to cater for a much earlier variant of the C-130 (C-130A/B ?) or the aforementioned C-130H-30 stretched version.     

[MrB17]

17 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said:

 

Having opened my C-130 this evening () I can confirm that both types of tail extension are included.

 

Thanks @Truro Model Builder. Unfortunately there are 3 types, and the one not included, is the one used on early K’s and some country’s E’s and early H’s. Although as pointed out to me by @Tiger331, modifying the longer modern one in the kit would not be that difficult. Only the Canadian E’s and early H’s had a CPI (crash position indicator) recessed into the top of the extension (beaver tail), a little extra work, but not too difficult. @Scooby is currently digging up the dimensions of the CPI and looking for a good photo. If anyone has a good close up photo of the top of the Canadian CC-130 beaver tail, with the bright orange CPI installed, that would be greatly appreciated. The first photo shows the CPI sitting flush in the beaver tail on CC-130E 130328, our last E model. The second photo is a good indication of what the beaver tail actually looks like, although this is a Chilean Herk, it’s the same style as many C-130A’s, E’s, early H’s, and K’s.

 

[tonyot]

On 11/2/2020 at 5:44 PM, keithjs said:

On Tony's post above, do my eyes deceive me, or is the walkway 'area' on the Light Stone and Dark Earth XV177 matt, and the rest of the aircraft gloss?

On the later grey green camo the walkway areas were specified as non slip paint,...... so I would say that it would be the same for the earlier scheme too? It certainly looks to be the case. 

[Tiger331]

8 hours ago, MrB17 said:

Thanks @Truro Model Builder. Unfortunately there are 3 types, and the one not included, is the one used on early K’s and some country’s E’s and early H’s. Although as pointed out to me by @Tiger331, modifying the longer modern one in the kit would not be that difficult. Only the Canadian E’s and early H’s had a CPI (crash position indicator) recessed into the top of the extension (beaver tail), a little extra work, but not too difficult. @Scooby is currently digging up the dimensions of the CPI and looking for a good photo. If anyone has a good close up photo of the top of the Canadian CC-130 beaver tail, with the bright orange CPI installed, that would be greatly appreciated. The first photo shows the CPI sitting flush in the beaver tail on CC-130E 130328, our last E model. The second photo is a good indication of what the beaver tail actually looks like, although this is a Chilean Herk, it’s the same style as many C-130A’s, E’s, early H’s, and K’s.

 

Great Work, MrB17. Thanks for digging these two photos up. As you say, the beaver tail saga is just that.....a Saga, so everyone will need to check their references for a particular aircraft very carefully. I have a Canadian Armed Forces camouflaged C-130H on my shortlist but I must say that I am very tempted by the scheme shown above. IIRC, 26 Decals are looking to upscale their great 1:144 decal sheet to allow us all to seriously consider this particular option !. I also feel sure that we will be treated to a myriad of other decal sheets once the manufacturers latch on to just how popular this new Zvedza kit has already become. 

 

Again, thanks for sharing. 

[MrB17]

While browsing the web for any new information about the Zvezda C-130, I came across a raised rivets set for the Zvezda C-130. The raised rivets are part of the charm of the C-130. While they may not be so noticeable on camouflaged ones, they do stand out on bare metal, light colours, glossy finishes and heavily weathered C-130’s. Arma Models Russia is doing these rivet sets, unfortunately they will only sell them with the purchase of the Zvezda C-130 kit, of which I have already purchased 2. Do I need a 3rd? Anyway here’s a link if you want to have a look.

 

https://arma-models.ru/catalog/dekali/am7293_dekal_obemnaya_dlya_imitatsii_zaklepki_s_130/

 

 

 

[71chally]

My kit arrived today, and what a beauty! At £34 amazing value for the quality of molding and size, and the five decal options.

 

I'm still slightly confused about the tail fairing thing though, to my eyes one option (the elongated one) looks right for RAF C-130Ks? Is there a detail I'm missing?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by 71chally