Jump to content

1/48 - Ilyushin IL-2 Shturmovik family by Zvezda - released


Recommended Posts

Thank you very much for the compliment on the book - I'm glad you like it! I hope it helps you with building your kits! I've yet to receive the Zvezda kit, but it does look like a very nice kit, and the outlines and general appearance seem to be quite accurate. I'm in the midst of modifying the 1/72nd scale Academy single-seater into the very early configuration (inboard 20-mm cannons, twin landing lights, etc.), with the metal rear fuselage (the Academy kit has this; the Zvezda kit does not). It's not a hard modification, and I suspect that modifying the Zvezda kit to a similar configuration, but with the wooden rear fuselage, should not prove too difficult.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/8/2020 at 9:56 AM, airacutter said:

Gentlemen,

I'm also happy to see Zvezda has not decided just to re-pack the good old (rather old than good) AM kit. On the other hand, kindly let me cool down the overall optimism a bit. The new Il-2 kit has a couple of restrictive limitations when it comes to choosing the option to build.

 

Firstly, the wing center section is not suitable for any of single seaters. It has openings for direct small bombs loading. This feature appeared since December 1942 on two-seat Il-2s. So pick your filler and sand papers :) 

 

Second thing, outer wing sections. Directly OOB you get full metal late wings mounted only by Factory No.18 (we're talking about single seater's wings, two seater's wings are a different topic). Hence, forget to use ShVAK cannons (shorter barrel). Consequently, we would need to follow the Factory No.18 pattern in the rest of the aircraft construction. Forget early type canopies, gun sight in the cockpit and bullet-proof glass behind pilot's seat. Don't forget to add the primitive gun sight in front of the wind shield.

Unless Zvezda releases a dedicated early production Il-2 with metal wings of very early type and metal rear fuselage, early canopies and PBP-1 gun sight will not be used at all. Sure, devoted Il-2 enthusiast can do a little sanding and re-scribing magic, a piece of surgery to modify the cannons vs machine guns position, re-position rocket rails, add second landing light and lower the fuel tank behind the pilot :D 

 

I see no major problem to convert new Zvezda's Il-2 into a Shturmovik with wooden wings. Fill and sand the panel lines, don't use mass balance weights, use ShVAKs instead of VYa-23s and you're good to go. Since June 1942 (if I remember correctly), reinforcing metal tapes were applied on upper and/or lower wings surface (depending on period and factory).

 

And last but not least, when choosing which decal option to build, always check your references and do not rely solely on instruction sheet (I mean in general, not just towards Zvezda). Single seat Il-2s were built by Factories Nos. 18, 381, 1 and 30, so not each single seater would match the Factory No. 18 pattern offered by this obviously nice kit.

 

Anyway, if you want to build an accurate Il-2 from Zvezda's kit, it's the right time to add the Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik book by MMP to your resources, if you still don't own one ;)

 

Enjoy your hobby!

Viktor

Victor, can I ask, is your new profile book different than the MMP. vol or is it just the illustrations from the original? 

Cheers

Sean

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Victor. Will pick it up. One point. You mention no  small bomb bays for single seater inboard of the wheel sponsoons. However you drawings seem to show them. Or am I misinterpreting so thing? 

. Cheers

Sean

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sean, all Il-2 modifications had four bomb bays in position as you mention, intended for bombs up to 100kg in each. Later, Il-2 could carry various types of small bombs, incendiary capsules, etc as well. Those were initially carried in dedicated KMB (Kasseta Melkikh Bomb = Small Bombs Container) containers, which were loaded into the bomb bays through bomb bay doors,  "from the bottom", similarly to standard 100kg bombs. Such containers, however, proved themselves not fully reliable (certain number of small bombs could stuck inside, sometimes ending with explosion while landing). A change was made therefore. They omitted containers at all and small bombs were to be loaded to bomb bays directly, "from the top", not through bomb bay doors, but through special openings with covers on wing upper surfaces where the bomb bays are. When on the target, pilot simply opened the bomb bay doors and all that deadly load fell out.

Please refer to the scale drawing in the original book, page 46 (p. 45 shows the "old" wing center section) and all following two-seat modifications.

 

BR

Viktor

Edited by airacutter
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine arrived today. EBay 26 quid. Really impressive and the good news is that there are closed options for the bomb bays. It also has the open air intake and the air filter as, options. Two types of top nose deck, ejection ports and rear wheel fairing. I don't think you need to build the engine if you want to do it buttoned up. Looks very impressive in the box and is about the same price the AM kit was in the mid nineties when it arrived. I still rate that kit family (its about the model not the kit for me) and I have a pile. However, assuming this fits well, it's the best thing in 48th out there in my view and yes, I have the Tamiya. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2020 at 3:23 PM, airacutter said:

Correct.

Sorry Victor. Did the doors open on the ground for subsequent two, seaters or was it the same. I want to model my Arrow with the bays open if it's possible to do so accurately

 

Thanks Sean

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sean, loading through upper openings was used only for small bombs, for example PTABs. So feel free to keep bomb bays open on the ground, ok for loading standard 50-100kg bombs.

"Arrow" could carry up to 600kg of load, compared do straight-winged with max of 400kg. Hence, no faux-pas if bombs and rockets at the same time ;)

 

Despite not related to "arrows", but rather straight-winged 2-seaters, worth to mention that if small bombs were carried in KMB containers, bomb bay doors were removed. KMB was split into six sections, each with single door. Since the KMB was a bit shorter than the bomb bay itself, there was a gap in the rear part, covered with metal sheet. Good to keep that in mind when building a two-seater taking part in the Battle of Kursk, where PTABs were massively and with great success used for the first time. While Il-2s with NS-37 cannons over Kursk is a myth, PTABs were a real Soviet secret weapon. With a rain of tens of small cumulative bombs falling down, just a single Il-2 was able to kill three German tanks in a column.

 

BR

Viktor

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, airacutter said:

Sean, loading through upper openings was used only for small bombs, for example PTABs. So feel free to keep bomb bays open on the ground, ok for loading standard 50-100kg bombs.

"Arrow" could carry up to 600kg of load, compared do straight-winged with max of 400kg. Hence, no faux-pas if bombs and rockets at the same time ;)

 

Despite not related to "arrows", but rather straight-winged 2-seaters, worth to mention that if small bombs were carried in KMB containers, bomb bay doors were removed. KMB was split into six sections, each with single door. Since the KMB was a bit shorter than the bomb bay itself, there was a gap in the rear part, covered with metal sheet. Good to keep that in mind when building a two-seater taking part in the Battle of Kursk, where PTABs were massively and with great success used for the first time. While Il-2s with NS-37 cannons over Kursk is a myth, PTABs were a real Soviet secret weapon. With a rain of tens of small cumulative bombs falling down, just a single Il-2 was able to kill three German tanks in a column.

 

BR

Viktor

Thank you so much Victor. Really a great help

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/8/2020 at 12:56 PM, airacutter said:

Gentlemen,

I'm also happy to see Zvezda has not decided just to re-pack the good old (rather old than good) AM kit. On the other hand, kindly let me cool down the overall optimism a bit. The new Il-2 kit has a couple of restrictive limitations when it comes to choosing the option to build.

 

Firstly, the wing center section is not suitable for any of single seaters. It has openings for direct small bombs loading. This feature appeared since December 1942 on two-seat Il-2s. So pick your filler and sand papers :) 

 

Second thing, outer wing sections. Directly OOB you get full metal late wings mounted only by Factory No.18 (we're talking about single seater's wings, two seater's wings are a different topic). Hence, forget to use ShVAK cannons (shorter barrel). Consequently, we would need to follow the Factory No.18 pattern in the rest of the aircraft construction. Forget early type canopies, gun sight in the cockpit and bullet-proof glass behind pilot's seat. Don't forget to add the primitive gun sight in front of the wind shield.

Unless Zvezda releases a dedicated early production Il-2 with metal wings of very early type and metal rear fuselage, early canopies and PBP-1 gun sight will not be used at all. Sure, devoted Il-2 enthusiast can do a little sanding and re-scribing magic, a piece of surgery to modify the cannons vs machine guns position, re-position rocket rails, add second landing light and lower the fuel tank behind the pilot :D 

 

I see no major problem to convert new Zvezda's Il-2 into a Shturmovik with wooden wings. Fill and sand the panel lines, don't use mass balance weights, use ShVAKs instead of VYa-23s and you're good to go. Since June 1942 (if I remember correctly), reinforcing metal tapes were applied on upper and/or lower wings surface (depending on period and factory).

 

And last but not least, when choosing which decal option to build, always check your references and do not rely solely on instruction sheet (I mean in general, not just towards Zvezda). Single seat Il-2s were built by Factories Nos. 18, 381, 1 and 30, so not each single seater would match the Factory No. 18 pattern offered by this obviously nice kit.

 

Anyway, if you want to build an accurate Il-2 from Zvezda's kit, it's the right time to add the Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik book by MMP to your resources, if you still don't own one ;)

 

Enjoy your hobby!

Viktor

No. From this model you can make a car for 1941 with a metal wing and 20mm guns

Link to post
Share on other sites

Metal wings of the type present in Zvezda kit, let's call them the "later type" (approx. since August 1941), were typical for Il-2 built in the Factory No.18 solely. This Factory was the only one installing the 23mm VYa-23 cannons since they were introduced (ShVAK cannons installed by Factories No. 1 & 30, however both Factories switched to wooden wings). There's so far no evidence that Factory No.18 has ever switched to ShVAKs even just for some period, neither with single-seaters, nor two-seaters. Hence the "later type" metal wings and 20mm ShVAK cannons do not go together. Would be interesting to see any photographic evidence confirming ShVAKs in metal wings (except of very early production Il-2s, with metal wings of "early type" with 20mm guns in inner position and no fairings, as built in Factories No. 18 and 381). Can you please share such photos? 

 

BR

Viktor

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/11/2020 at 01:09, airacutter said:

Metal wings of the type present in Zvezda kit, let's call them the "later type" (approx. since August 1941), were typical for Il-2 built in the Factory No.18 solely. This Factory was the only one installing the 23mm VYa-23 cannons since they were introduced (ShVAK cannons installed by Factories No. 1 & 30, however both Factories switched to wooden wings). There's so far no evidence that Factory No.18 has ever switched to ShVAKs even just for some period, neither with single-seaters, nor two-seaters. Hence the "later type" metal wings and 20mm ShVAK cannons do not go together. Would be interesting to see any photographic evidence confirming ShVAKs in metal wings (except of very early production Il-2s, with metal wings of "early type" with 20mm guns in inner position and no fairings, as built in Factories No. 18 and 381). Can you please share such photos? 

 

BR

Viktor

Here you can clearly see the balancers (metal wing) and short barrels (ShVAK), the car dates back to the fall of 1941. Just a box version of painting/marking.

Until the summer of 1943, there was a shortage of VYA guns, so the Shvaks were put in parallel.

https://postimg.cc/ppzrnww3

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fridrih, thanks for sharing the photo. I see couple of questionable points, mainly due to the canvas covering.

What is the canopy type?

What type is the gun-sight? PBP-1b in the cockpit? VV-1 in front of the windscreen (seems not)? Or maybe no gun-sight at all?

What type of fuel tank is behind the cockpit?

The only thing we more or less clearly see is the "later type" metal wing introduced since August 1941.

 

Speaking of the Il-2 production and shortages of various kind. Yes, there was a shortage of VYa-23 cannons. There was also a shortage (in the aviation industry at all, not just in connection with Il-2) of light metals. What did that mean for the Il-2 production with keeping in mind that the Factory No.18 was the head producer?

Factory No.18 was producing Il-2s as close to the desired state as possible. Despite the lack of metals, this factory limited the wooden replacements to rear fuselage sections only. Never built wooden wings for single- and two-seat machines. Factories No. 1 and 30, due to lack of metals, were "forced" to introduce also the wooden wing outer parts. 

Despite the lack of VYa-23 cannons, Factory No. 18 has never switched to ShVAKs. Factories No.1 and 30 were "forced" to replace VYa-23s with ShVAKs, even the two-seat Il-2s with straight wings (btw also wooden) built in those factories were armed with 20mm cannons until summer 1943, as you have pointed out already.

It was the late war period, the Il-2 "krilo so strelkoy" (arrow wings), when the situation in the industry got back to normal shape. Hence, also the Factories No. 1 and 30 started with introducing the metal wings production (still, the first "arrows" built there had wooden wings) and with VYa-23s installed. The final step was taken after the war. Some 350 aircraft turned into full metal planes after their wooden rear fuselage sections were replaced with metal ones produced as conversion kits by the Factory No.30. Most of them, about 300, were trainer modifications, since the ground attack role has been taken over by more advanced Il-10s.

When speaking of various production nuances, those can be rarely applied globally. Instead, we need to take a look on specific factory and time period.

 

Il-2 from the photo shared by Fridrih is definitely and interesting subject. If to rely on the date information Nov 1941, we can "reconstruct" all the details not visible on the photo. Well, and the short barrels? Maybe more an exception rather than rule. That would be my best guess. Fridrih, do you have more photos of other Il-2s with metal wings and ShVAKs? By any chance any photo of painting/marking options 3 & 4?

 

One more comment on Zvezda kit. The instructions advise to attach aileron mass balance weight (parts D13) to ailerons (parts D2 and D3). Aileron weights have been used with the early metal type wings and should not be used when building this kit. There is a couple of good photos for the painting/marking variant 2 available, one of those clearly showing there are just the wing tip mass balance weights. Despite the photo kindly shared by Fridrih is not absolutely clear, at least to me it shows no aileron weights as well (due to the wing type I would not expect them to be there, tbh).

 

BR

Viktor

 

 

Edited by airacutter
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, airacutter said:

What is the canopy type?

Single seater

 

22 hours ago, airacutter said:

Despite the lack of metals, this factory limited the wooden replacements to rear fuselage sections only.

On this there is a resolution of the State defense Committee of September 9, 1942.

In which there is Point 2. To produce, starting from September 15, 1942 at plants No. 18 and 381 Il-2 aircraft with a wooden wing console, on the model of Il-2 aircraft produced by plant No. 1.

Signed: Chairman of the GKO I. Stalin

https://postimg.cc/Yhf7z80n

 

Is it worth further analyzing your theses that there were no guns, but the planes were produced somehow?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Single seater canopy, of course. What type of a single seater canopy considering its framing and armour protection evolution? 

 

I am well aware of that resolution. Let's continue to explore it a bit further. Unless a resolution or order is fulfilled, it's just a piece of paper. Resolution was issued on 9 Sept 1942. A month later, it was reported, that Factory No. 381 has not yet started with wooden wings production due to lack of wood-working facilities. Some of the late production Factory No.381 aircraft had the wooden rear fuselage section, but none had the wooden outer wing parts. Simply said, Factory No.381 did not fulfill the resolution signed by J.V. Stalin himself. Why do you expect that Factory No.18 did that? Any photographic evidence of real produced aircraft followin the resolution from 9 Sept? Factory No.18 was equipped withe metal-working facilities well enough. The conversion to wooden wings production would cause delays and dropouts in production. That was something that the factory director was referring to in one of his letters, if I remember correctly. If we say "wooden" wings or fuselages, we need to understand it was not a pure natural wood, but a special sort of ply-wood with enough complicated production technology. Even a "wood-experienced" producer, such was the Zavod No.30, was facing numerous production defects due to violations in the production technology.

OK, let's continue with resolution based path as you suggest. There's another one, from May 1941 if I remember correctly, to replace ShVAKs with VYa-23. How it turned out we already know. Not fulfilled due to lack of 23mm cannons.

Now, I'm a bit lost in how you propose to understand the resolutions. Wooden wings from Factory No.18 yes, because there was a resolution? VYa-23 no, despite there was a resolution? So is an issued resolution a determining factor we can fully rely on? I would suggest to apply the same approach to all resolutions. Firstly let's check what is a certain resolution about and then double check if, how and when it was fulfilled.

 

There were no guns? Who said that? It's definitely not my thesis. Apologies if I have formulated my thoughts in not enough clear way. Lack of VYa-23 cannons means that their production was unable to deliver as many cannons as needed to equip all planes with. Again, let's keep in mind, that Factory No.18 was the head producer. From the limited amount of VYa-23s at hand, there was enough 23mm cannons to supply the Factory No.18, but not enough to do the same for Factories No.1, 30 and 381. Similar cases could be seen through the war also in other industry segments. For example enough rubber bandages for T-34 tank road wheels in Factories No.183 and 112, but critical lack in Stalingrad, so the Stalingrad Tractor Plant must to develop their own road wheels with inner amortization, not using rubber bandages. And that was just a one example of many others. As you can see, deficit of various kind, and often of a local scale, was a quite common thing, especially in the first half of the war.

 

BR

Viktor

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing to remember about Zavod 18 is that it was the factory that was the most directly controlled by the Ilyushin OKB. It was the main factory for the Il-2. Sergey Ilyushin did not like the wooden-covered wings as they added some 200 lbs to the overall weight, were harder to produce (as Viktor indicates, the plywood shpon was not just a piece of wood), and were more prone to damage. He much preferred the metal-covered outer wings. Although it would have been dangerous to too openly defy a resolution from Stalin regarding the production of wooden-covered wings for Il-2s at Z.18, Ilyushin could have (and apparently did) prevent this from happening by stating that the production change would have resulted in production delays. This was always a powerful argument, even against Stalin's resolutions. Early in the Great Patriotic War especially, nothing was more important to the Red Air Force than keeping production of the Il-2 continuing at a high level, with no or minimal interruptions.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gentlemen

i’m completely lost with all those variants and variations.

As Viktor’s book costs nowadays its weight in gold is it possible to explain simply the steps of changes for the IL-2 monoplace and then why zvezda’s IL-2 is wrong ?

Thank you in advance.

Best regards

Pierre

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Well, I received my kit today, so I shall spend some time looking it over and giving my thoughts. My initial reaction is it's a lovely bit of moulding!

 

Regards,

 

Jason

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Few facts about this development.

The lineup will have 4 modifications. Historical consultant for this project is Ivan Rodionov, the author of the famous IL-2 drawings from the old Soviet magazine Modelist-Constructor, the very drawings that have been redrawn for 30 years in all books around the world.

Rodionov defines more than 100! serial modifications of the IL-2 (no, in the figure, the number of zeros is correct).

Zvezda models are claimed to be the most accurate replicas of the subject. They are even more accurate than two real restored flying Il-2s.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...