Viking longboat questions

[Doom3r]

14 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

For a source of small figures try N gauge railway shops.

 

As for using the oars as leeboards, it is an interesting idea but I'd check that with the Roskilde museum ships first.  I don't recall seeing it on any of their voyages, but obviously I've only seen a tiny proportion of their work.

Unfortunately I do not know of any specialized railroad hobby shops in my area. And the smallest people that carried by the hobby shops that I have in the area are HO scale so had to try online.

[Black Knight]

A resource to see long ships in action is the Bayeux Tapestry.

There are many images on-line of sections of it and there are plenty of Duke William's invasion fleet

 

Notice that some ships have animal heads/figures on the stern/stem posts and some ships do not

 

Here you can see the crew taking down the mast, to the right are several ships grounded and de-masted

[Chewbacca]

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 14:29, Niall said:

Oars were used when sailing. They were mounted vertically on the side of the vessel with the blades in the water like the lee boards on Thames barges to act like a modern centreboard, so the vessel could sail slightly into the wind.

 

That's an interesting concept.   Whilst I can the efficacy of doing this to sail closer to the wind, and I can perhaps see it being done temporarily with 3 or 4 oars close to the bow or stern. if they positioned them the way that you suggest surely they'd have to leave a very large gap either side of the boom or have to move the oars to avoid fouling the boom every time the wind changed direction by a few degrees?  Additionally putting all of the oars in the water would dramatically increase the drag.  Like others, I've never seen any evidence to suggest that that was a practice adopted (though that's not to say they didn't!)

Edited October 1, 2019 by Chewbacca

[Niall]

The image I remember had oars straddling the mast and used about half the oars on the ship. The top of the oars were much lower than the boom, so would not foul it. The practice would only have been used on the large ocean going ships which had a very flat hull form, which would only have been able to sail with the wind. The drag would be ofset by the increase in speed that is obtained by sailing across the wind.

[Noel Smith]

I think that Emhar have issued a Viking Ship and do a set of figures to go with it.  Don't know if the scale is the same as your kit.

[Arjan]

I have been looking for the 1/72 Emhar Gokstad kit and especially the oarsmen figure set that was intended for this model. There are still quite a few of these boat kits on ebay but the oarsmen figure set is nowhere to be had anymore (at least not in Europe). I even wonder if Emhar is still in business ? I did find one shop in Australia that still stocks some of these figure sets but I think the shipping fee of over €20 is a bit too much.

 

Arjan

[Noel Smith]

Emhart as far as I know are still in business.     Try keying in their name followed by UK distributor as that might throw something up.  I think that the importer is in Welwyn Garden City and may be able to recommend a local stockist.

Try some of the second hand kit sites like Kit Crazy in Kent, King Kit at Shifnal,  Models For Sale at Raunds or Collectakit.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Noel Smith

[Paul821]

33 minutes ago, Noel Smith said:

Emhart as far as I know are still in business

Emhar are one arm of the importer Pocketbond, they were taken over by Bachmann some time ago and he web-site is now

 

http://www.pocketbond.co.uk/BrandCategoryMenu.aspx?BrandID=3

 

search for Viking and the Oarsmen do come up as a current item.

[Noel Smith]

Thanks for that Paul as Pocketbond the distributor was the name I was trying to think of and should be able to recommend any of their retail stockists.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Noel Smith

[Arjan]

On 17/12/2019 at 16:46, Paul821 said:

Emhar are one arm of the importer Pocketbond, they were taken over by Bachmann some time ago and he web-site is now

 

http://www.pocketbond.co.uk/BrandCategoryMenu.aspx?BrandID=3

 

search for Viking and the Oarsmen do come up as a current item.

Unfortunately, the Oarsmen set is also listed as out of stock here.  Since I really wanted this set I ordered one in Australia ...... The Emhar Longboat kit is a real joy to build so it's a pity the oarsmen set is not readily available in Europe. 

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

[seadog]

On 9/27/2019 at 9:39 AM, Francis Macnaughton said:

As I understood it the Oseberg ship was some kind of ceremonial or leisure craft with an appreciably shallower hull rather than a sea going vessel, let alone a true long ship type raider.  The "Sea Stallion  from Glendalough" replica at Roskilde is an example of the true long ship and there are a goo set of photos here:

 

http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_imagebrowser&view=gallery&folder=havhingsten-roskilde&Itemid=55

That has been shown to be false. The first replicas were built on an erroneous interpretation of the hull shape. Saga Oseberg, the new build is completely seaworthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5OgCWFINQc There's a lot of film of her on Youtube and there was a Documentary about the Oseberg ship and the burial etc. on thebox last night

Billings do a nice kit of the earlier reconstruction, Not cheap, mind. I built their model of 'Roar Ege', a smaller vessel. A thing of beauty. Strictly speaking, they're Longships. Longboats are found on bigger vessels, like warships of later times

 

[Arjan]

Thanks for the interesting link to the German boat modelling site. As it happens I started on the 1/25 scale Billing Boats Oseberg this week. I paid €115 for this kit in Germany which is not too bad I think. I'm working on the hull planking now (about two rows every day 😀) :

 

 

I also considered buying the 1/35 Dusek Longship but I didn't fancy the idea of having to fashion 32 oars from some dowels ...... I might buy one later though.

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

Edited December 19, 2019 by Arjan

[seadog]

Also tempted by Dusek's  Longship. I think it's from the same drawings as "Sea Stallion"

[Arjan]

Dusek has another longship in 1/35 scale that even has 60 oars .......🙂. It's only marginally more expensive than their 1/35 Gokstad version. Again €90 is not too bad :

 

https://www.modeledo.pl/en/drewniany-model-d005-viking-longship

 

Talking about temptations, I noticed the Andrea Miniatures 1/30 Viking ship plus crew on ebay last week ...... I just couldn't resist it although the ship model is probably a product of fantasy. Some nice pics from the internet :

 

 

 

 

 

Arjan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Arjan

[Francis Macnaughton]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:38 PM, seadog said:

That has been shown to be false. The first replicas were built on an erroneous interpretation of the hull shape.

I must admit to being surprised to see this but soon found an item at the Roskilde museum website explaining that a reinterpretation of the underwater lines was much more seaworthy.  I had only recently finished reading the British Museum book on the Viking Ship published in 2014, well after the Roskilde work.  This still had the  original theory as do 2 or 3 other works still on the market.   I would suggest most plastic and wood kits purporting to represent the Oseberg are also therefore out of date unless they specifically say they have the corrected shape.

[seadog]

Yes, I rather hoped Billings would redo the kit. Probably not feasible.  I imagine the hull shape, corrected, would be more like the  Gokstad ship, fromthe same area and time frame.i actually wrote to  Roskilde suggesting that a set of scale plans would be a real favour to students an the likes of us! Didn't get a reply.

[Arjan]

Personally I don't think the BB model's hull shape is too far off, perhaps its free board lacks a few millimeters but I don't see much difference when comparing the model with pics of the Saga Oseberg's hull.  The model's interior/deck is noticeably inaccurate though . This seems to be a nice book, there is also a drawing :

 

https://mindzone.dk/saga-oseberg/

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

[Francis Macnaughton]

10 hours ago, seadog said:

a set of scale plans would be a real favour to students an the likes of us!

There are a some useful drawings in this booklet about the reconstructed Skuldelev 2/Sea Stallion that pretty much give you the hull lines.  

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welcome-Board-Sea-Stallion-Glendalough/dp/8785180416

 

There is also this card model of the Gokstadt ship which is pretty good

 

http://www.sklep.wak.pl/product_info.php?products_id=1159&language=en

 

 

[seadog]

1 hour ago, Arjan said:

Personally I don't think the BB model's hull shape is too far off, perhaps its free board lacks a few millimeters but I don't see much difference when comparing the model with pics of the Saga Oseberg's hull.  The model's interior/deck is noticeably inaccurate though . This seems to be a nice book, there is also a drawing :

 

https://mindzone.dk/saga-oseberg/

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

I'd love a translation! I think you're right, looks very much like they mainly increased the freeboard. There was a documentary on the BBC a while back about all the testing they did to come to the revised shape. There was something about the run up to the bow or something. Wish I could see it again. Anyway, It may be based on an earlier interpretation, but damn, it's a beautiful ship whatever! and your build is doing it justice.

[seadog]

1 hour ago, Francis Macnaughton said:

There are a some useful drawings in this booklet about the reconstructed Skuldelev 2/Sea Stallion that pretty much give you the hull lines.  

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welcome-Board-Sea-Stallion-Glendalough/dp/8785180416

 

There is also this card model of the Gokstadt ship which is pretty good

 

http://www.sklep.wak.pl/product_info.php?products_id=1159&language=en

 

 

I hadn't seen the Sea Stallion book - it's now on my list, thanks. It seems to me that the card model , which works out at about £5 would be well worth buying if for no other reason than providing plank patterns.... Again, thanks for the links!

Happy Christmas to all

F

[davecov]

I went to the Viking Longboat Museum in Norway in 2016 and I have uploaded eighty photos I took that day of the longboats and artefacts.

 

The pictures are large because I didn't want to reduce them and lose detail. Some of them will be a bit blurred due to the lighting conditions but many of them will be of interest. Go to: http://www.davecov.org/modelling/ships/norway/longboats/index.htm and click on the links.

 

Dave

[seadog]

Thank you for uploading these!

[seadog]

Looking at the drawings of Saga Oseberg, it looks like the big difference is that they rounded up the midships a bit, which gives more freeboard.

[seadog]

This is a really good link on the construction of Longships

https://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/en/professions/boatyard/right-now-at-the-boatyard-skuldelev-3/gallery/?fbclid=IwAR13dmAfJO9LXcstsPz2pi0tMchmXvhURhVR5lRTzimX7VN-G8a-2eFeQlk

[Arjan]

While studying the various pics of Saga Oseberg on Facebook I noticed spray boards could be fitted for inclement conditions. These boards slot into the rubbing  strakes nailed to the hull sides. So it seems these strakes were probably not primarily for storing shields 🙂.

 

 

Another misconception concerns the way the oarsmen sat on their seats/chests. I'm afraid the position of these seats is wrong on every Longship model I have seen so far 😎.

 

 

Arjan

Edited December 31, 2019 by Arjan