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keith in the uk

Hurricane Prototype in 1.48th where do i start ?

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I quite fancy building the Hurricane prototype in 1.48th scale , most Hurricane kits seem to be of the metal wing version.

Classic Airframes did a fabric wing version but this seems to be a bit thin on the ground lately.

As far as I am aware no Hurricane prototype kit or conversion set exists in 1.48th scale unless someone here knows better ?

 

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Once upon a time there was a one-piece fabric wings part for the older Airfix 1/48 Hurricane Mk.1.

The part can sometimes be found as new-old-stock or on the 2nd hand market.

I think the part was made by 'Paragon'. They also made a 1/72 version.

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That is a beautiful model of K5083! I am hoping I can do half as well on a 1/72 little brother! 👍

Mike

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On 9/24/2019 at 9:04 PM, 72modeler said:

That is a beautiful model of K5083! I am hoping I can do half as well on a 1/72 little brother! 👍

Mike

Ditto what he said ! 

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On 24/09/2019 at 21:38, keith in the uk said:

As far as I am aware no Hurricane prototype kit or conversion set exists in 1.48th scale unless someone here knows better ?

 

No.

 

and even the fabric wing conversions or kits won't help much.   The big issue is NOT the wing, which is not that hard to modify,  but the fuselage. the model above has the right wing,  but a mid production Hurricane I fuselage for the access panels. 

 

In short. totally different fuselage panelling, uppercowl shape plus making the short exhaust pipes, and a higher canopy and spine.  No gun bays in this shot.

hurr1-1.jpg&key=a7643081c9d56948464d2ed8

 

for panel comparison, V7476 as a derelict, but note lower canopy, and access panel shapes, clearer here as in aluminium dope.

raaf_150.jpg&key=9d3d40202a027e58309249a

 

 

This pic shows the formed bulge in the top nose cowl panel to accommodate the cylinder heads on the early Merlin, and added gun bays

hurr1-5.jpg&key=821f6e1ea31a4a7e93ee8096

 

EDIT

this is a Mk.I with bare metal and fabric covered areas painted aluminium, note panel shapes and coverings

34828071586_645060a7b8_b.jpg&key=a56e7ab

 

The prototype was continually modified, so you need to pick your when it's modelled,  but other changes are tail plane struts, no keel, different rudder, different UC doors, different radiator bath and carb intake....

 

There are drawings here by Bentley, which mention the changes, and have an early Mk.I for comparison.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930159-172-hurricane-prototype/&do=findComment&comment=1181311

 

 

On 24/09/2019 at 22:54, Black Knight said:

Once upon a time there was a one-piece fabric wings part for the older Airfix 1/48 Hurricane Mk.1.

Aardvark, later sold by Heritage.

 

In 1/48, the OLD tool Airfix Hurricane is a good place to start, as with the raised panel detail you just have to sand it off..... and they can be got cheap.

I have one part done, then ran out of enthusiasm.... 

 

HTH

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Thanks Troy , lots of helpful information there :yes:  I now have a plan to scratch build the wings and re scribe the fuselage.

If anyone has the Aero club prototype canopy I would love to hear from you.

cheers Keith.

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The hardest part is depicting the fabric covered wings. I first sanded the kit wing surfaces smooth then I marked where the ribs would be in pencil. I then applied strips of masking tape to the approximate scale width of the fabric tape that was applied over the sewn fabric. Then I gave it a light spray of paint, removed the masking tape and then sanded the paint ridges almost smooth. This retained the straight edges and created the slight optical trick effect under the final silver coat of a slightly raised tape surface. In the photo I posted the effect appears to be slightly more pronounced than it is on the model. 

 

For the exhaust stubs I cut slices of Evergreen tube, glued them in position then gently sanded them close to the surface. Cleaned out the little cavity and gave it a dab of black paint. If you are careful and use a very fine grade of paper you can get them to the scale size fairly easily.

 

The radiator bath and the u/c doors need to be pretty much scratch built but they aren't difficult. The prototype didn't have the keel under the rear fuselage and one must remember that the tail planes had supporting struts. The rudder also needs to be modified to have a straight vertical join with the fin, but that's an easy bit of inscribing a new line to the top and filling the old balance demarcation at the top of the fin. The rest was just rescribing and sanding.     

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Thanks mate , that's pretty much what I intend to do with the wings on my build.

What did you use for the canopy ? I understand Aeroclub did a vac canopy for the prototype but it  is now out of production.

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Keith,

 

I have been following this discussion with great interest, as I have always wanted to do K5083 in 1/72 scale. (Natcherly!) Since the prototype's canopy was taller than the production versions, I was thinking about adding a strip of plastic along the bottom of both sides of a stock canopy to get the desired height. Now the bug-catcher, windshield, windscreen, depending on which side of the pond you're on and whether you're a two or four wheeler- that's a different matter entirely. The prototype's windscreen looks very much like the one on the Blackburn Roc/Skua, but I haven't looked at those kits on my shelves to see if  either could be adapted. Since the center and side panels are all flat, I was thinking I could just make all three panels from plasticard and trim to get a good fit, then sand everything smooth to make a vacform master. That's as  far as my thinking has taken me, and it might be easier in the larger scale you are building. Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out- the prototype, in late fit especially, is one beautiful Hurri, with all that silver dope and polished metal panels. Good luck!

Mike

 

http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot.com/2010/11/hawker-hurricane-k5083.html

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Since the prototype's canopy was taller than the production versions,

if you are starting with the Airfix fabric wing kit, no need,  the canopy/windscreen  is too high.... if not checked really carefully,  but I think it's about right for the prototype...

see

Hurricane_AF_fabric_canopy_IMG_0374.jpg&

 

hurricane-1.JPG&key=386de07405d784948582

 

AFAIK the Rob Taurus ones do not correct the problem

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235047694-rob-taurus-hurricane-canopies-for-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing/

 

2 hours ago, keith in the uk said:

I understand Aeroclub did a vac canopy for the prototype

I suggest smash moulding one,  it's a pretty simple shape,  I did make a mould  when I was trying to do mine, I don't think at the time I was aware that canopy was deeper though.

 

HTH

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Thanks for the diagram, close-up photo, and information, Troy. I think I see what you are talking about now. Will pull my Airfix kit an compare the kit canopy to the drawings of the prorotype canopy. other than the windscreen, it looks like it will relatively  easy to do, along with increasing the height and straightening the line of the upper fuselage decking aft of the canopy. 'Preciate your taking the time to post the detailed reply.

Mike

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3 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

along with increasing the height and straightening the line of the upper fuselage decking aft of the canopy.

Mike

Did you get the plans in the link above?  There was some talk about this, and my plans are 'somewhere'  (and I've got a headache and can't be faffed to go hunting)   but I think what Hawkers did was to RAISE the canopy rails 2 inches, not lower the spine. 

 

They may have lowered the spine, as that seems easier solution.    I will check when I get chance.   So please wait for some kind of confirmation.

 

Note, the fabric wing kit has two windscreens, one without external armour,  and this may well be 'close enough'  

 

The 72nd fabric wing kit will certainly be an easier starting point, especially if you opt for a later version of the prototype with revised radiator and UC doors and gun bays installed, as well as revised canopy.

see caption at the bottom of these drawings

Hurricane-dwg.jpg

 

One final point, the production planes have a sharp angle where the fabric starts, the prototype has a curve. 

 

HurricaneBentleynotescrop_zpsc6a2675f.jp

 

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I got this:

 

48838755503_4f799f2f03_b.jpg

 

48839301077_361a99705f_b.jpg

 

48839301132_da9af842ab_b.jpg

 

48838755798_f2d90bd9c6_b.jpg

 

48839127296_432936c38c_b.jpg

 

48839301307_9a2b91ca30_b.jpg

 

48838759993_74b0a9d5e0_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

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@dogsbody and @Troy Smith,

 

Thanks for both of your posts. If I can't build a decent replica of K5083 using the information you have so generously provided, I've got no business calling myself a modeler! Looks like I have everything I need- now I just need to get off my bum and build something, fer cryin' out loud!

Mike

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On 9/24/2019 at 7:04 PM, 72modeler said:

That is a beautiful model of K5083! I am hoping I can do half as well on a 1/72 little brother! 👍

Mike

In 1:72 we are better served for fabric wing Hurricanes with no lower strake. My sticking point has always been the canopy. How are those of you considering a prototype planning to modify a production canopy to the earlier configuration? Sand off the canopy frames, polish, and then mask with the larger panels? I'm a wee bit skeptical I can pull that off without making it rather obvious, but I could be convinced. Any other possibilities? 

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3 hours ago, keith in the uk said:

Looks like the only real option for the canopy would be to mould a new one from scratch :shrug:

Yep, and as soon as somebody takes the time and trouble to make an accurate master and vacform one, some aftermarket outfit will release one!

Mike

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Yep, and as soon as somebody takes the time and trouble to make an accurate master and vacform one, some aftermarket outfit will release one!

Mike

 

With two canopies in the pack!

 

 

Chris

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On 10/10/2019 at 05:46, king of men said:

My sticking point has always been the canopy. How are those of you considering a prototype planning to modify a production canopy to the earlier configuration? Sand off the canopy frames, polish, and then mask with the larger panels?

in 72nd, the fabric wing Airfix kit canopy is wrong,  it's too deep, but I suspect that it is right for the prototype, but you will need to lower the the canopy rails and cut down the fuselage for the lower positions of the cockpit rails.  

 

this is from an article Hurricane Veracity,  Scale Aircraft Modelling, vol 21, no 8

48884495756_f5576570d7_o.pngHurricane veracity canopy by losethekibble, on Flickr

By Peter Cooke, who was famed for his 1/24th scratch builds

 

now look carefully

 

 

Hawker-Hurricane-Ia-RAF-W9232-in-flight-

 

compare, the curved rails can be seen above, as well as the depth change, note also shape of lower windscreen line

hurricane-1.JPG&key=386de07405d784948582

 

 

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I have problems with that suggestion of Peter's, as it requires the same overall height at the top of the canopy, whereas you can see that on the production version the top of the faring behind the canopy has been lowered.  Plus the curvature at the top of the fuselage means that a canopy beginning higher would perforce be narrower.  I think the conventional description of a lower canopy with a lowered top to the fuselage, and a modified rail in the same position, would the likelier engineering approach that fits the evidence.

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I agree with Graham , comparison of  the two pics clearly shows a taller hump behind the canopy than on the production model,

also the wind screen front sits lower too.

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I am firmly with Peter and Troy. The hump behind the canopy is the same height on both airframes. What is different is the contour. The production aircraft has a sharp kink with a flat-topped plywood-covered doghouse at the top. Immediately behind the doghouse the stringer line rises a little more steeply towards that kink because the wooden stringers do not have the reflex curve of the stringers on the prototype, in which the stringers flow all the way to the 

rear of the canopy.

 

The easy way to see this is to look at the removable escape exit under the canopy. On the prototype it is obviously shallower than on the production machine, vindicating Peter's explanation.

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There appears to be no rise in the slope of the nose up to the cockpit which would have been necessary if the fuselage lines showed such a change.  If you look at the aerial, this remiains in the same position but the rise in the fairing to the cockpit is much more severe on the prototype than on the production.  Remember that the top of the engine is higher on the prototype.

 

It would be interesting to know if original prototype fuselage drawings survive.

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These threads come up about once a month ( I started one...) 

 

i cant believe the aftermarket guys aren’t all over this....

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