Selwyn Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) Looking to find some references to the training colour schemes of Hart trainers, Avro Tutors, and Tiger moths in the year before WW2 started. Can't seem to find any details of the approved colour schemes at this time. Selwyn Edited September 21, 2019 by Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I don't know of any specific reference to this period, but there may be something in Jerry Scott's small PSL Airfix Guide to RAF camouflage in WW2. It is perhaps unique, but certainly one of very few works to specifically deal with changes in RAF trainer colours. From seeing many photos, the trainer colours changed from overall Yellow - sometimes with polished cowlings to the Temperate Land Scheme (Dark Green and Dark Earth) presumably after Munich. The Yellow went up the fuselage sides. In 1940 the TLS came down to the bottom of the fuselage sides. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 In my Airfix PSL guide, which is by Michael Bowyer rather than Jerry Scott, it states as follows: From the Munich crisis, training aircraft had upper surfaces of wings, tailplane and fuselage camouflaged in DG and DE. The fuselage sides to about three quarters way up were left yellow, likewise the wing undersurfaces, top and bottom. LG and LE on lower wings of bi-planes "is not believed to have come in until April 1940." Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 My apologies to Michael Bowyer and Jerry Scutts, not Scott. (Having seen it happen again whilst I was watching, part of the blame belongs to computerised text correction. I shall have to look again for datable photos of trainers with the lower wings in Yellow. I have, however, seen photos of trainers with Yellow wingtips, something which was standardised much later than would seem to be the case from these views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 AIRfile RAF Trainers Volume 1: 1918-1945 ISBN 978-0-9569802-4-3 A useful tome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 These are Tiger Moths of 35 E&RFTS at Grangemouth in the Spring of 1939.: They look to me like they were delivered in overall Yellow then given an ad-hoc pattern of Dark Green and Dark Earth over the upper surfaces post Munich. Another view: Tiger Moths and a Hart : I have a better photo of the line-up in the top view, I'll see if I can find it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Ratch said: AIRfile RAF Trainers Volume 1: 1918-1945 ISBN 978-0-9569802-4-3 A review was written in 2012 and can be found here. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Bruce Robertson "Aircraft Camouflage and Markings 1907-1954"...................... Trainers received the standard silver/aluminium finish until 1935 when a distinctive orange/yellow overall finish was introduced. (p76) ................ A yellow finish remained standard for trainers but from 1938 uppersurfaces were camouflaged in the usual brown and green. (p84) ................. Until December 1940 the camouflage came only halfway down the fuselage but during that month it was extended to the bottom of the fuselage sides. (p112) ............... There is a lot more detail on codes/serials/different units/different types/special schemes for aerobatic teams but the basics boil down as above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 On 9/23/2019 at 9:17 AM, Ratch said: AIRfile RAF Trainers Volume 1: 1918-1945 ISBN 978-0-9569802-4-3 A useful tome. It is, I have it and recommend it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Ah-ha! I knew I had a better photo: May 1939. Note the hyphen in the serial number. How much am I looking forward to the new Airfix kit? 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Starmer Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I went into some detail on pre-war Tiger Moths a few years ago for a chap rebuilding one. The original scheme was overall Yellow with polished metal cowlings. The next phase was all Yellow. This was followed in 1938 when shadow shading began. As you see above in both images, all wing tips , fins, rudders and tail surfaces remain Yellow. This is in accordance with a DH drawing I have dated 1938. The tips are Yellow 6 feet inboard and include inter-plane struts too. The camouflage demarcations on the drawing are identical on both upper mainplane surfaces. The DH drawing states IIRC, camouflage to be to AD.1160. Another image I have taken at Hatfield shows an N serialled machine just as those images above, the shadow shading complies with the DH drawing. A 1938 drawing AD.1160, shows a single engined Hurricane type aircraft in Dark Earth and Dark green patterning on upper surfaces as one expects with a demarcation halfway up the fuselage. These N serialled Tiger Moths are all to the DH drawing with both upper and lower mainplanes the same pattern and colours. This is evident on the Hatfield machine. There is however a variation of the upper and undersurfaces demarcation on the fuselage. The DH drawing shows a high line along the top longeron whilst various pictures show that and a mid fuselage line. Now comes the confusing change, In February 1939 a new drawing, AD.1169, was issued for Tiger Moths on which the scheme is changed to have sides high colour line, and undersurfaces Yellow as are the wing tips, elevators and fin/rudder. Only the top of the tailplane is camouflaged, the elevators remain Yellow. The lower mainplanes are now Light Earth and Light Green in a different pattern. All roundels are A type. This was then followed by an amended AD.1169 dated August 1939, this shows the entire upper surfaces including all top tail surfaces in camouflage colours. The interplane struts are the colour they stand on but the fuselage still has Yellow side surfaces with B type roundels as do the mainplanes. I discussed these variations with the late Edgar Brookes and he assured me that the earliest Tiger Moth diagram he found was dated February 1939. The D.H. drawing I have came to me on a CD of RAE diagrams and documents. This confirmed that there must have been an earlier 1938 drawing for Tiger Moths which DH were using. One point I must make is that not only were Tiger Moths finished with the same colours and patterns on the mainplanes, but so were Hawker Furies and Gladiators at the time of the 1938 Munich crisis. One can only conclude that when shadow shading was first introduced then AD.1160 was the only drawing then issued for single engined aircraft but subsequently replaced by RAE designed others for biplanes utilising lighter colours on lower surfaces as they had devised for the 1936-37 drawings and camouflage trials. AD.1162 is for the Gloster Gladiator issued in May 1939. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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