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bootneck

Civil aircraft registrations and movements - is there a glossary of acronyms?

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I have recently taken up building airliner models and I have been using a couple of registration sites, to ensure correct owners and changes etc.  I am somewhat out on a limb though when it comes to some of the abreviations used; a couple that I can't work out are rg and rrg, which are regulary mentioned in aircraft histories in rzjets when I type in a registration such as G-APAV etc.  Is there a definitive listing available for these?  There are many more that I am not familiar with and these are just an example.

 

Mike

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The aviation industry runs on acronyms, every section has it's own set and there are far TMA (too many acronyms)

I suspect that rg is registered and rrg is reregistered.

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Judging from the entries for G-APAV at rzjets, I would agree with Stu: rg=registered, and rrg=re-registered.

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That's what it is . rzjets , use them a lot for ease more than anything but always check with another site for similar info. they get quite a bit wrong as far as years go . I know the VC10 production list is bad and the other sites on the VC10 are too . I think everyone is copying the same info. Even VC10 books are a shambles on the year and place of scrapping because they've copied the same mistakes .

 I saw it on the dump at Lasham .

As far as G-APAV goes this looks like the thing for you . Can't see anything about being re registration though . Great pic of it in SABENA service

http://saadonline.uk/archives/2569

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I just went through the Bristol 170 prod list on rzjets . I have no idea why the rrg is there . It kept the same reg throughout it's life . I double checked with planes I know and rrg does mean re registered . 'PAV never was rrg and btw no mention of it flying with SABENA but it you've seen the photo on that link above .

usual abbreviations below , I realise you'll know most but just in case .

wfu = withdrawn from use

wo  = written off

lsd = leased

bt = built

ff = first flight

del or d/d = delivered/ delivery date

b/u = broken up

canx = cancelled ( what that means is probably wfu ! )

ntu = not taken up ( cancelled order type thing)

cvt = converted

mfd = manufactured

Why is abbreviation such a long word ?

Edited by bzn20

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1 hour ago, bzn20 said:

Why is abbreviation such a long word ?

You can use abbr.    (:->)

or <abbr> if you speak HTML rather than English.

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1 hour ago, bzn20 said:

I just went through the Bristol 170 prod list on rzjets . I have no idea why the rrg is there . It kept the same reg throughout it's life . I double checked with planes I know and rrg does mean re registered . 'PAV never was rrg and btw no mention of it flying with SABENA but it you've seen the photo on that link above .

usual abbreviations below , I realise you'll know most but just in case .

wfu = withdrawn from use

wo  = written off

lsd = leased

bt = built

ff = first flight

del or d/d = delivered/ delivery date

b/u = broken up

canx = cancelled ( what that means is probably wfu ! )

ntu = not taken up ( cancelled order type thing)

cvt = converted

mfd = manufactured

Why is abbreviation such a long word ?

Thanks,  I have started a few kits but haven't decided their liveries yet;  Viscount 700, Viscount 800, Superfreighter, DC-3 and VC10.  I am especially interested in the Bristol 170 as that type was built on the site of the Helicopter Museum here, where work as a volunteer.  Before I changed to building aircraft models, I used to build merchant ship models; both liners and cargo types, and some of these would change hands many times during their career.  To keep an accurate check, on changes, movements, conversions and charters etc., I could refer to the current edition of Lloyds Register of Shipping, plus it also had a good glossary of terms.  Is there such a publication for the airliner industry?

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

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2 hours ago, bzn20 said:

I just went through the Bristol 170 prod list on rzjets . I have no idea why the rrg is there . It kept the same reg throughout it's life . I double checked with planes I know and rrg does mean re registered . 'PAV never was rrg and btw no mention of it flying with SABENA but it you've seen the photo on that link above .

 

I think rrg means "re-registered to a new owner," not new registration letters/numbers.

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Another pair of abbreviations/acronyms you will see are "MSN"  and "C/N"

 

They both refer to the same thing. Manufacturers place a production number on each aircraft they build. This number usually stays with the same airframe throughout its life, irrespective of changes of owners, operators and registrations.

 

MSN stands for Manufacturer's Serial Number.

C/N stands for Construction Number.

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Thanks Eric.

If that is the case then, once I know of an aircraft's details, I could do a search on the MSN or C/N to find the full history; rather than just search on the registration letters.

 

Mike

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18 hours ago, bootneck said:

was built on the site of the Helicopter Museum

I lived in WsM and worked there for Westlands . I also went to WsM a few times visiting relatives in Taunton when it was Bristol's , saw a couple of NZAF Bristol Mk31s next to the road to Locking just over the rail bridge , nice  surprise !

Not sure about modern books . The Bristol Mk31 and 32 never made it to the late 60s plus Ian Allan production list bibles . You could trust those to be almost fully correct up to print deadline .After that the 'planes were being sold/leased so the info was only good up to that date

The link I gave you looks like a good site depending on type . Otherwise you need a book specific to type . Saying that I haven't seen an accurate VC10 book for production list as far as scrapping year and locations, same for online lists. One site which is really good VC10.net but even that is incomplete , looks like he saw the mis information elsewhere and didn't bother to go the same route .

If you get stuck on something ask me and I can go through my production list books , old mags .

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Thanks again.  Most of the volunteers at the museum worked for Bristol's or Westlands, or both; with one of the chaps having worked on Concorde. 

 

I have this book and use it to research the history of Weston Airport and of the aircraft built and repaired at the shadow factories at Oldmixon and Banwell:

spacer.png

 

I have also been loaned this book by a fellow volunteer ex-RAF; Bristol's and Westland's engineer:

spacer.png

 

These books are very good but they don't tell me of any aircraft movements.  The reason for my original post is that I am building a diorama of the old airport terminal at Elmdon, Birmingham; before operations transferred to the new Birmingham International terminal in 1984.  Some arrivals and departures at Elmdon, that I have seen, give a date, type and registration but not always the owner or charter at that time.  I don't want to assume that my airliner livery is going to be, for example: BOAC, BEA, Dan-Air, Derby Aviation or Silver City etc., as I know that aircraft got sold on, leased or merged and so I need to know when these happened.  With reference to the VC10 build that I am doing, I will probably do that as Air Malawi as I have a confirmed date and ownership for that.

 

cheers,


Mike

 

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11 hours ago, Eric Mc said:

Another pair of abbreviations/acronyms you will see are "MSN"  and "C/N"

 

They both refer to the same thing. Manufacturers place a production number on each aircraft they build. This number usually stays with the same airframe throughout its life, irrespective of changes of owners, operators and registrations.

 

MSN stands for Manufacturer's Serial Number.

C/N stands for Construction Number.

The term "C/N" (for "constructor's number") is generally preferred over the "manufacuter's serial number"  so as not to confuse it with the military serial number, if the airplane has one. The term "factory serial number" is sometimes used as well, but "C/N" seems to be more common.

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10 hours ago, bootneck said:

Thanks Eric.

If that is the case then, once I know of an aircraft's details, I could do a search on the MSN or C/N to find the full history; rather than just search on the registration letters.

 

Mike

That's exact;y right. The C/N never changes, but the registration might. It's comparable to the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number here in the US) on your car. It remains with the car from the time it's built until it goes to the crusher, unless an unscrupulous dealer or thief alters it. But the license plate ("tag") number may change, especially if the owner moves to another state.

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19 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

I think rrg means "re-registered to a new owner," not new registration letters/numbers.

You're probably right but rzjets didn't seem to do it on some other aircraft prod lists I looked at ,lack of standardisation . The end column is Operator/ contract (lessor) so it's moved on.

VC10 G-ARVC was leased then sold re reg A40-VC so the rrg wasn't there just re reg , must be different people doing it or the one left has a short memory !

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On C/N or Con numbers as we called them as kids . We went on so many production lines in the 60s ( just walked,cycled or were driven in !) all we had sometimes was the con number on a hanging board  although it might have 3rd 1-11 for American/Braniff or Trident 1E for Kuwait depending and had to wait 'til it was built and in Air Pictorial's production info at the back of the mag each month for the reg . I devoured Con numbers and prod lists from age 11 or 12 .

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56 minutes ago, bootneck said:

Oldmixon and Banwell

That explains a RAF type hangar above the road to Banwell ( I think) . I wondered what it was doing there . Can't remember the name of the company that was using it but they were making bonded washers for VC10s in the 80s/90s

That WsM and the Aeroplane looks good .

 

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Banwell was the third factory building/hangar of the shadow factory concept for Bristol's.  If their main factory at Filton got hit during a raid in the war then all production would have been affected.  The shadow factories were built as back up sites.  The Bristol Aircraft Company (BAC) had the main shadow complex at Oldmixon; however, Shed No.2 was deemed to be too close to the others and so was rebuilt across the airfield, beside the railway line at Hutton Park. It became the radar trials centre after the war and was occupied by MoD,  Ferranti and other electronics establishments.  The third shed was was built at Banwell but this site is now a housing estate.  A fourth factory was built on the airport site, adjacent to where the museum is now. All of them factories were used to build or repair Beauforts, Beaufighters, Tempest II's and Ansons.  After the war, the one next to museum was used to convert Anson I's to communications aircraft and for the production of Bristol Freighters.  Later, it was used for conversion work on Britannia's and even HP Victors.  Later again, Bristol Sycamores and the Belvedere were built there before production was centralised at Westlands main site at Yeovil.

 

The WsM and the Aeroplane is a very good book, I got all the above information from it.  It was written by two former BAC/Westlands Oldmixon, then Yeovil, employees who were also volunteers at the museum.

 

Mike

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21 hours ago, bootneck said:

so I need to know when these happened

If you have a year in mind you could get hold of Flight mags yearly World Airlines Survey. Usually around April-June (off the top of my head ) You don't need to spend anything .

 

Link for flight global archive every page of flight mag

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/search.aspx?ArchiveSearchForm%24search=&ArchiveSearchForm%24fromYear=1948&ArchiveSearchForm%24toYear=1975&x=50&y=4

 

Click on the year you want and shift through the pages 'til you hit the Airline survey which was April - June ish (it was in the 1960s anyway) . You can click any page to see the date right at the top of each page . It lists all kites in the fleet that year for each airline ( you don't get registrations or con numbers ) and routes flown . From that you can make an educated guess to who had what and went to the same airport .  Then you'll need the right colour scheme for each 'plane/ airline for the same year . Nothings that easy ,always need a big shovel and patience . There are enthusiast Airport and airline specific websites usually run by ex staff . Facebook has an Elmdon Airport page with 800 members , wealth of info and will answer any questions . The Viscount site is ace ,individual frames' histories running through the production run ,444 of them I think ,should be, that's how many were built .

http://www.vickersviscount.net/Pages_Listings/ListingsProductionbycn.aspx

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Those are very good links and I can see myself getting happily buried within the detail.  I don't have FB so the Elmdon stuff will be missed I'm afraid.

It might take me a while to surface from the Flightglobal site...........  wish me luck, I'm going in!

 

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Tell a friend or loved one where you've gone ! Once in it takes the whole night up ,so much stuff !

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Working with Airbus and Rolls the abbreviations are an absolute minefield, Airbus even produce an abbreviation dictionary which runs to many, many pages.

 

MSN is the term used by them rather than C/N and appears on all the Airbus documentation, I think it's only us spotters that use MSN for military serial number. Rolls always want the ESN - engine serial number, if you don't give that you don't get your bits.

 

Anyway back to CIDS, EPSU, FAP, ANSU and CAM, a sweety to the first with the correct answers.

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One site that I use is the G-INFO database on the CAA site (https://siteapps.caa.co.uk/g-info/).  The site will show you the whole registration history of G registered aircraft, including images of the original CAA record sheets, showing all changes of ownership / operator.

 

 

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mmm, that doesn't seem to work for me.  I opened the link, did the reCaptcha (I am not a robot) then typed in the last four letters of an aircraft and hit search, but nothing.  I closed the link, started again with a different serial and, again, nothing.  The registrations I used, AOXL and ASPB, were from photo's of actual aircraft.

 

Mike

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15 minutes ago, bootneck said:

that doesn't seem to work for me.

 

Both worked for me

 

AOXL is a DH114 HERON 1B

ASPB is a JODEL D117

 

Simple question "you did scroll down?" as the registration details are empty and on my screen the aircraft details are further down. Also the site might work differently on mobile devices - I have not checked.

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