Der Adler

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello Everybody... Now that I've finished off a couple of other builds. I can finally start something thats months in waiting. Many months ago during the 1950's NATO/WARPAC Group build i had commented on a good looking build that Craig @modelling minion  was building. It was a Yugoslavian Air Force Messerschmitt G-10, this one to be correct. 

Kindly he offered to send me the decals for the plane. He received them from a friend in Serbia i believe (correct me if I'm wrong Craig). It took a little while for me to get $ in my budget to buy the plastic for the build. My options were the older Revell G-10 or the Eduard kit. I opted for this Eduard overtrees kit. ⬇️

Here are the decals i will be using and i will be doing #44 as that is my favorite number. 

 

At some point in the near future i may actually build a second Messerschmitt as there are enough roundels to do more than one. Though it will have to be #3 the G-6 to be totally accurate. Questions, comments, and or thoughts ? 

 

Dennis

Edited September 23, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[f111guru]

Well Dennis I am a fan of the 109, 190 262 etc ah ww2 aviation to be totally sincere. The more the color and camouflage the better. So I'll grab a seat and watch with interest.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Welcome aboard Ron, it might be a slower build but i'll get there in the end. 

 

Dennis

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello everyone... Was finally able to get some work done on this. After about 90 minutes i have got the cockpit to this stage. 

The fuel line as supplied by Eduard is clear. They do this so that you can leave the fuel pipe inspection part clear in the cockpit. I had started to paint the piece, set it down to work on something else. When i went back to paint the rest of it, Gone ? Seems the carpet monster  must be able to climb up on desks, because my piece disappeared. After 15 minutes of looking for it i gave up. I then took a piece of brass wire bent it to shape and painted it. Questions, comments, and or thoughts ? 

 

Dennis

[modelling minion]

Very nice start Dennis and good to see this one underway.

It looks like an excellent kit and is more detailed than the older Revell kit that I used and I'm very much looking forward to the end result.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello everyone... I was doing some more work on this today. It came time to close the fuselage, thats where i came upon todays mystery. Now a brand new production G-10 has the tall tail wheel oleo. But something struck me wrong with that. My plane has a shorter oleo and is not retractable ? My plane is actually still around and flyable. Its in Oregon. Here is a website from her restoration. 

 

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/walkaround/610937/610937.htm

 

And a quote from the webpage. 

 

"at this time , seems unlikely to be. She was painted to represent an aircraft flown by Germany's leading ace, Eric Hartman and is on display in preserved condition (fluids drained) at the Captain Michael King Smith Evergreen Aviation Educational Institute in McMinnville, Oregon."

 

So that being considered i looked up more of the aircrafts history. Work #610937 was originally built as a G-14 work #127914. Then rebuilt and upgraded in late summer 1944 into the G-10 status. I found this site with two aircraft histories including mine. 

http://yumodelclub.tripod.com/batajnica_air_show/a_tale_of_two_me109s.htm

 

This is the same but in a larger size for easier reading. 

https://nmpnis.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/185/amp/

 

So I will be building mine with the standard 109 Tail wheel. This is good as it can be mounted at a later stage for ease of masking and painting. Here is today's work fuselage closed up. 

 

 

Questions, comments and or thoughts ? 

 

Dennis

[Troy Smith]

12 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Now a brand new production G-10 has the tall tail wheel oleo.

AFAIK, G-10's had both types.
G-10's are pretty confusing, and can have most options, Erla built, large and small wing bulges, short or tall tail wheel.

Mostly is who built them, and what batch,  for accuracy you need both a photo and a general idea of where it was built. .... gives me a headache too 

[f111guru]

Dazed and confused. This makes my head hurt. As with most aircraft models that appear to be the same model and BAM subtle differences rear their nasty head. Same as with the F-111A. Found many differences with this model. So like what Dennis is doing, I try to find as much information as possible on a given subject by serial number. 

 

By the way Dennis you are doing a fantastic job on this kit. The carpet monsters have a way of taking kit parts right out from under our noses. Cockpit is looking great and the combined fuselage seem to have minimal file and sanding.

Took this shot in June this year at the National Museum of the Air Force in Dayton, Ohio.

Ron VanDerwarker

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 minute ago, f111guru said:

Cockpit is looking great and the combined fuselage seem to have minimal file and sanding.

Thanks... Yes i think sanding just ahead of the canopy opening, and a few spots on the upper lower spine should sort me out. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ive now hit a fatal road block in the build. The G-10 i need to build has the large wheel bulges. These are the type that extend from front to back, and are about 1 foot wide. Like the ones in this drawing. 

 

 

I seemingly ordered the incorrect model. I should have ordered the WNF Diana version. If anyone has any ideas i would gratefully accept them ? Do i ignore and make it as is ? Do i build this as a Luftwaffe aircraft ? Do i try and find a G-10 that has these wings and see if i can make a different Yugoslavian bird ? 

 

Dennis

Edited September 16, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ok so if i go Luftwaffe i can build one of the Special high altitude G-10 escort fighters in the overall RLM76 scheme. A few others used by Jg-3/27/300. Then i have another option to do a post war Czechoslovakian, interned Swiss G-14, Hungarian, or a Yugoslav partisan captured G-10. So at least i have options. 

 

Dennis

[f111guru]

Dennis, I would stay the course. I have used thin balsa wood shaped to what is needed and glued with super glue and sealed with thinned epoxy. You could use 5 or 10 mm sheet plastic as a based and shape the balsa. If you do not have a longer tail wheel, you could use a sturdy piece of styrene rod or metal to extend the tail wheel. Of course this is one train of thought and I'm sure others will assist in your de boggle.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Troy Smith]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Do i try and find a G-10 that has these wings and see if i can make a different Yugoslavian bird ? 

the 1979 Revell G-10 is this, based on the one that was at Chino in the late 70's.  And they can be got really cheap.  and there are always options for a late 109, 

 

The G-10 you have could do the Croat G-10 surrendered at Falconara , it might be a G-14/AS but they are very similar externally.

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/JG2(Kroat).html

 

 

 

the markings were in the Hobbycraft kit

 

which reminds me, the Hobbycraft kit came with both types of upperwing bulge as a separate part,  so larger upperwing bulges are 'out there'

https://modelingmadness.com/scott/axis/luft/me/109/hc109g10preview.htm

the kit is based on the revell Bf109G-10 so is decent.  Note separate wing bulges in review

 

This era Hobbycraft decals are noted for being decent,  and with 5 options... they are out there is spares land

Quote

Markings are on a very large decal sheet and provided for five aircraft. First is the box art aircraft from Croatia in 1945. It is in RLM 82/83/76 with yellow rudder and nose band. I have to say that 82/83 uppers were unusual, but as with all things Luftwaffe, not improbable. Next is Red 22, from an undisclosed unit, though it is probably JG 52 or JG 54. It also has a yellow rudder and nose band, but is painted in the more likely RLM 81/82/76. The next is for two aircraft, each apparently Yellow 7. One is from JG 54 and the other JG 300. Both are given as RLM 82/83/76 with the only difference being the Reich Defense band on the aft fuselage.  From the ANR is this next G-10, Black 17, also shown in RLM 82/83/76. Finally a Hungarian plane in RLM 75/82/76 with a yellow nose band. Two different colors for the code letters are given as there is some confusion as to the proper shade. A very nice touch is that canopy frames are provided as decals so you can use them instead of masking the canopy. Swastikas are provided in a two-piece deal to keep from upsetting the squeamish. What is not given in the markings guide is any indication of which tail wheel or main wheels should be used. I seriously doubt if ALL of them are the same as shown on the box art and personally am not too sure that the plane shown had the small wheel clearance bumps on the wing. This is something else that Hobbycraft needs to work on. I highly recommend doing some research on the aircraft you are modeling if using the kit decals. The decals themselves look just great and should work as well as any aftermarket ones. I've used HC kit decals and the newer ones are just superb. This sheet is dated 2002.

 

 

HTH

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, f111guru said:

stay the course. I have used thin balsa wood shaped to what is needed and glued with super glue and sealed with thinned epoxy. You could use 5 or 10 mm sheet plastic as a based and shape the balsa.

Thanks for the advice Ron, Im working that out in exactly how to do this. I have balsa in my stock right now, i use it for wooden floors in cockpits. If I could afford milliput or something similar that would also work. Now for the balsa or plastic sheet to work I will have to drill out or shave off the wheel bump that is there currently. Am I right about this ? 

3 hours ago, f111guru said:

If you do not have a longer tail wheel,

Have 2 long and 3 short tail wheel types in the kit so I'm covered. 

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

the markings were in the Hobbycraft kit

which reminds me, the Hobbycraft kit came with both types of upperwing bulge as a separate part,  so larger upperwing bulges are 'out there'

https://modelingmadness.com/scott/axis/luft/me/109/hc109g10preview.htm

the kit is based on the revell Bf109G-10 so is decent.  Note separate wing bulges in review

Thanks Troy I wouldn't mind the decal sheet for that kit, some great options there. Hasegawa's late G's and K had the separate pieces also. I remember that from when i built my K in 2003 so there are hopes to find the pieces. I knew about the Revell kit, but i really wanted an Eduard kit for this build. In honesty I just messed up and i assumed the bulged wings i needed were in this kit. I should have done better research on this. So now I'm trying to fix my screw-up.

    Let me ask @modelling minion what he thinks about all of this ? Craig whats your opinion with everything thats come to light about this ? Continue, try to fix it by modification/addition of the wing bulges, or post-pone and do in the future with the correct kit ? Be it Revell, hobbycraft, Hasegawa, or Eduard ? 

 

Dennis

[modelling minion]

That must be really frustrating for you Dennis, I've been in similar situations myself and it really is annoying.

I can't telly you what to do with your build mate, it is yours. If you were going to add some replacement bulges I would go down the route of using someones spares from either the Hobbycraft or Hasegawa kits, both of these kits are popular and I'm sure some one on here will have a set in their spares box somewhere.

There is no problem with you building this one as a different machine if you want to as I'm sure a cheap Revell G-10 will come the way of one of us before too long.

I will check my spare Bf 109 decals as I may well have something suitable for you.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

I can't telly you what to do with your build mate, it is yours. If you were going to add some replacement bulges I would go down the route of using someones spares from either the Hobbycraft or Hasegawa kits, both of these kits are popular and I'm sure some one on here will have a set in their spares box somewhere.

There is no problem with you building this one as a different machine if you want to as I'm sure a cheap Revell G-10 will come the way of one of us before too long.

I will check my spare Bf 109 decals as I may well have something suitable for you.

Thanks Craig I have plenty of decals Been collecting them for almost 40 years. I will put an add in the wanted section see what comes of it. I will put this on hold for a little while to see what happens. If i get the $ to replace the kit then i will build this one as Luftwaffe. 

 

Dennis

[f111guru]

About your comment on the bulges, Yes you'll have to file them off, or grind them down. The balsa for me anyway would run the grain in the direction of the wing span. Would flex easier along the wing root. Similar to skinning a balsa wing.

 

I don't have any milliput just white or green stuff. As a 1 to 1 auto mechanic I have surfacing putty and bondo which I've used in the past.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one but have boxes upon boxes of spare parts and sprue rails at my disposal.

 

Just thoughts

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I wouldn't mind the decal sheet for that kit, some great options there.

I mention it as it likely to a be available  quite cheaply in the on the second hand market?  (I guess?, Hobbycraft were widely distributed and lost were made AFAIK)

 

regarding making the bulge, it's not that simple a shape, it has a flat flange around the edge, and it flattens off at the front.   

 

 

pic from the 109 Lair, http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm  and got to the walkrounds for more

 

A set of HC or Hase spares is the way forward IMO

 

HTH

[Bonhoff]

AFAIK the Academy 109s were reboxed HC ones so there's another potential source for the correct bulges.

 

IanJ

[f111guru]

Have to agree with @Troy Smith about the non simplicity of the shape. That is what it takes. Lots of photo shots from different angles. Just to even make a stab at the shape. Even model companies fail miserably at this. Pictured is a beautiful 109.

As with Dennis I too am on a budget and having a digital camera makes taking pictures less stressing. Less cost to get pictures developed. With me it's been trial and error on getting things to work when not much information is out there.

 

Dennis do your best and over time it will come through. So far so good.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello everyone... I haven't given up on this not by a long-shot. However i have been giving it some thought and have been trying to decide on an alternate scheme. Just in the off chance I cant find the wing bulges that i need. So far my favorite options are along these lines. First up is one of the special high altitude escort fighters of Jg.1, Jg.3 like these. 

 

 

Or a night-fighter in similar colors from NJG.10 or 11.

Lower profile on this one ⬆️

My personal favorite of these 4 ⬆️ is the scheme on 57. Next up is this plane, "blue 5" which is another night-fighter/flight school markings from EJG.2. 

The only problem is i do not have the decal for the squadron emblem. Its an owl on a shield. The last option is a day fighter of Jg.27. 

So if anyone has any opinions or thoughts please sound off and let me have them. 

 

Dennis

[f111guru]

Far to many options as I'm one for the challenge. I have modelling friends that have pushed me over the edge of straight out of the box. I do like camouflage whether it be shades of green or shades of grey. I myself like the above black 13 and further above the white 7 and white 11. Stripped and spotted grey and spotted green. Hmmm..........

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Well not looking good for the wheel well bumps but i will give it more time. Ive finalized it to these two schemes. 

High Altitude fighter escort, or the Two green G-10 from JG-27. Mine will be Black 10 as ive no 13's. 

My alternative is this G-10 from Jg.300 in what appears as overall RLM.70 or RLM 82. Mine would be yellow "8" for the same reasons as above. 

Questions, comments, or thoughts ?

 

Dennis

[Troy Smith]

43 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

My alternative is this G-10 from Jg.300 in what appears as overall RLM.70 or RLM 82. Mine would be yellow "8" for the same reasons as above.

 

Nope, it's an Erla built plane,  different cowling.   Be interesting to see if eduard do the Erla cowling as well. 

 

some more on these

there are a couple of colour shots of this dark scheme,  and it's two colours,  

note band behind cockpit

 

and on cowl here

 

 

sorry, can't find the colour image at the mo. But you can see the difference, maybe 70/82

EDIT or just using up obsolete bomber colours, 70/71,  as I've been looking at colour shots trying to find said image...

 

there is also another high altitude one, black 14, flown by Horst Petzschler, 

 

searches are saying it's a G6/AS,  but a G6/AS and G-14/AS are pretty similar in appearance to you G-10 kit, a few minor tweaks is all.

 

OH, the profile of 'Blue 5' above is wrong, it's green 5

Me Bf 109 G10 Ju 88 Luf 77 Gardelegen Germany 14 April 1945 JEC 02430 by Jeffrey Ethell Collection, on Flickr

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

 

OH, the profile of 'Blue 5' above is wrong, it's green 5

Thanks troy... ive got a few color shots and there seems to be confusion as ive a color photo showing it blue ? Either way its out as i have no way to get the squadron badge. Maybe someday in the future ? As for the two colors maybe 70/71 or like you suggest 70/82. Now I'm not the best at noticing small changes in types. Would you have a list or any ideas of what would be needed to change to the G6AS or G14. 

 

Dennis