Richard502 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 The book will be useful for the painting stage of Dora Wings forthcoming Bloch 151, but I would like to hear your opinion on this book before shelling out 50 Euros. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Strongly recommended. Of course, this may depend upon just how much you already have on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard502 Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 Thank you! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michou Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I haven't had the book very long so my opinion is formed after a quick browse through it. It is, as far as I am aware, the only book which covers the subject. Do not expect a work similar to those which have appeared on Luftwaffe, RAF and American colour, i.e drawings of camouflage patterns to be applied to specific aircraft and colour chips. If I translate a few words from the preface you will receive some idea of what to expect. "The French, inflexible, always dissatisfied and rebellious, have only vague notions of discipline. The camouflage patterns ... perfectly reflect this mind-set in which the exception is the rule." And the last words of the preface are - "Why be simple when it can be made complicated?" The book does not contain plan views together with left and right profiles of specific aircraft. It does provide enough material to make a convincing model. Mike 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) Then, following principle quoted above, as long, as you have colours "right, or acceptable in modelling circles", that book gives you nothing, really! Think about it, and save 50 Euro for that Dora kit. We got a heaps of guys trying to make a quid on modelling market. Look at all those books: "How to glue together kit XXX" (check in Hyperscale- "How to FW190") , and now they trying to go into "reference materiel", where you learn nothing. It's your money, after all. Guess, you making a scale kit for your local museum, and it's gonna be perfect! Good luck 🙂 Zig Edited September 13, 2019 by zigster new info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlanceHR Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 I have the book. I love the book. It is not a cheap book. It's not a modelling guide. Maybe one of these would better suit your needs: https://www.avions-bateaux.com/produit/hors-serie-avions/1973 Cheers, Vedran 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Chris Ehrengardt was for many years a serious student of French aviation in this period, and has published many books on the subject plus a series of magazines. He has never been "some guy trying to make a quid on the modelling market". (Not, I gather, a particularly profitable approach.) This book, his last, is a synthesis of his knowledge on this subject. It doesn't contain some aspects that would have been good to see, but don't know of any single book that covers all aspects of any nation's camouflage and markings in this period, and most of those that address partial aspects of such subjects run to considerably higher prices. I already have several works of various writers on this subject, but still found this book interesting and enlightening. Those interested in this subject but with less well stocked libraries will be absorbed and delighted. Those with closed minds will no doubt be happy to remain ignorant of the considerable amount of information packed into its pages. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) On 9/12/2019 at 8:40 PM, Michou said: I haven't had the book very long so my opinion is formed after a quick browse through it. It is, as far as I am aware, the only book which covers the subject. Do not expect a work similar to those which have appeared on Luftwaffe, RAF and American colour, i.e drawings of camouflage patterns to be applied to specific aircraft and colour chips. If I translate a few words from the preface you will receive some idea of what to expect. "The French, inflexible, always dissatisfied and rebellious, have only vague notions of discipline. The camouflage patterns ... perfectly reflect this mind-set in which the exception is the rule." And the last words of the preface are - "Why be simple when it can be made complicated?" The book does not contain plan views together with left and right profiles of specific aircraft. It does provide enough material to make a convincing model. Mike it was written, on camouflage drawings(1938 mod 39) of MS 406, this nota: ' the topside receive brun and gris bleu foncé blotches over the kaki. The delimitation and repartition of these blotches are blended and given for information. These delimitation and repartition must be vary from an airplane to another airplane." thus prevent the memory of a camouflage patttern, it's the reason why the french camo is not identical on each airplane. Despite this nota, the MS 406 built at Toulouse receive a camouflage according one pattern. Potez 63 serie and LeO 451 had a camo pattern. camouflage Breguet 693(jun 1939), it' is written : "port side symmetrical to std side" Edited September 17, 2019 by BS_w 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michou Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Quote t was written, on camouflage drawings(1938 mod 39) of MS 406, this nota: ' the topside receive brun and gris bleu foncé blotches over the kaki. The delimitation and repartition of these blotches are blended and given for information. These delimitation and repartition must be vary from an airplane to another airplane." thus prevent the memory of a camouflage patttern, it's the reason why the french camo is not identical on each airplane. Despite this nota, the MS 406 built at Toulouse receive a camouflage according one pattern. Potez 63 serie and LeO 451 had a camo pattern. Merci BS, This shows that you can have only a good idea of the appearance of the other side of an aircraft shown in a photo. The Luftwaffe and the RAF had camouflage patterns shown on a grid and the pattern was reproducible to within a couple of centimeters. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 As far, as I can see, the original post was "is that book going to help me with model DW Bloch?". Michou said: "Do not expect a work similar to those which have appeared on Luftwaffe, RAF and American colour, i.e drawings of camouflage patterns to be applied to specific aircraft and colour chips." dragonlanceHR said: "It is not a cheap book. It's not a modelling guide". So, Mr Boak, you've missed my point. No one was saying, that book is without any value for somebody "into" French colours. Yet,there's no point for Richard502 for spending 50 Euro for a book, which is a study of their paint ideas (The camouflage patterns ... perfectly reflect this mind-set in which the exception is the rule). Cheers! Zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 may 1939, quantities used for one MB 151(French air ministry, composition MB 151): camouflage - kaki: 4kg (camo lacquer, finish) - khaki - brun: 4kg(camo lacquer, finish) - brown/dark earth - gbf: 4kg(camo lacquer, finish) - dark blue gray - gbc: 10kg(camo lacquer, finish) - light blue gray - tête de nègre: 4kg....(priming quality) - dark brown - chamois: 8kg (priming/protection/finish) - light tan, used on hidden nor interior surface there is also the colors and quantities for piping code and markings and insignia. the cockpit area was probably "gris bleu" on early airplane then "bleu de nuit" on later(aft dec 39). wheel well was considered as exterior surface so it was paint in same colour as underside. colors shades known, refer to photography for repartition of these colors on the airplane 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Well, Mr Zigster, there is much in the book which will help the original poster. He didn't ask for a specific pattern on a specific example at a specific time. The book contains photos and artworks of various Bloch's, giving examples of how the visible sides of the aircraft are painted, how this varied with time, how the markings varied, including how the individual numbers differed between units, with every escadrille insignia shown. There is a big gap between not knowing everything about the full colour pattern on a specific aircraft type and complete anarchy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard502 Posted September 14, 2019 Author Share Posted September 14, 2019 Well, I have ordered the book. Thank you for the recommendations! Sound like an interesting read and a perfect opportunity to brush up on the rusty French. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 "Well, I have ordered the book..." That cleared all of my blabbing :-)) Please, do share your opinion on this book. Zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard502 Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 20 hours ago, zigster said: Please, do share your opinion on this book Will do. May take a while, though. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 That's OK!. We had a quite few year since French Campaign in the air, and questions about French AF colours popping all the time. Looks like throwing some names (in French) does not works with most of the the guys. Some info is in that C-714, never used by Finns, now in Poland. You can find some photos, compare your paints Regards Zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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