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F9F-2 Panther cockpit color & wing fold color question


NontasB

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Hello to all,

 

I have started the Hasegawa F9F-2 Panther in 1/72 and I am planning to build it as an ATU-206 bird, 1956-1957 era and I will use the kit decals.

At that moment the Panthers of ATU-206 had been painted gull gray over white. 

In the kit instructions it is mentioned that the wheel bays etc had been painted white. I guess this is correct since all the later airplanes that had this camouflage (gull gray over white) had white wheel bays.

I am looking information about the color of the wing fold mechanism.

In the midnight blue schemes the wheel bays and the wing fold mechanism were midnight blue. When they started to paint the Panthers gull gray over white, the wing fold mechanism was painted white also or remained midnight blue?

I have seen some colored photos with the scheme that I am building but I can't match the color. In those photos, the flap side is white (I guess) and the rest of the wing fold mechanism color seems like something dark, maybe midnight blue or it is just shadow of the wing and it seems like that, or heavy weathered (liquids-oils etc) that have made the area look just dirty.

 

Does anyone know the wing fold mechanism color in gull gray over white schemes???

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Nontas    

Edited by NontasB
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I'll throw in another option: interior green.

This is based on the fact that several pictures of Panthers in the blue scheme seem to show this colour in the area and the same colour was used on blue painted Cougars. Mind, I've also seen blue Panthers with what looks like blue wingfolds and even some close-ups that seem to show aluminum paint ! All of these may have been carried through into the grey over white era.

Speaking of Cougars however, those in grey over white had white wingfolds, so making this colour a possiblity on the Panther as well

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First of all I would like to thank you Giorgio for you answer.

 

Interior green is also an option and I guess it was the most common after an extra research that I have made.

The Cougars indeed when they were painted in gull grey over white, had white wingfolds. The wheel wells had been painted white also. 

Aluminium wingfold is also an option for the Panthers. In photos of ATU-206 birds with folded wings (1 or 2 are all I have found) show something like this. White flaps and perhaps aluminium the rest or something similar like the following photo.

 

(sorry for the small photo)

spacer.png

 

Could it be white all over? And the darker area to be just weathered or a shadow?

 

 

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While the introduction of white for the wheel wells and landing gears is something I found in the various USN official documents, I've yet to find anything concerning areas like the inner faces of folding wings. All USN aircraft in this scheme seem to have used white, and this may be due to some official request from the Navy, beside being a very logical choice.

With the Panthers having been repainted in the grey/white scheme and not originally built as such, it would be interesting to understand at what level the aircraft were repainted. Likely this would have been at main USN facilities, that therefore would have implemented whatever regulation then in existance, but we know that things don't always work this way... I'll try to dig through some more material in the next few days, maybe something interesting will come out

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Thanks again for the information Giorgio.

Your help is much appreciated.

My will is to paint the wingfold white.

It is much easier during the painting process of the model and looks more familiar and correct with the rest of grey/white jets of the later era.

But as you said things don't always work this way and maybe the wingfold remained in the previous colors in some birds.

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I think you would be OK painting the wingfold in white.  I checked my references and the best I could come up with was white, with no indication of blue or interior green.  Not to say they didn't exist because of overall repainting to gull gray over white, and other things the other postings have mentioned. Numerically I would say white is your best bet.  Bob

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On 9/13/2019 at 4:20 AM, Giorgio N said:

it would be interesting to understand at what level the aircraft were repainted

Repaints are supposed to occur a Naval Air Repair Facilities (NARF) as part of an overhaul. These later became Naval Aviation Depots (NADEP) and are now called Fleet Readiness Centers. Repaints could also occur during a rebuild by the manufacturer. 

 

If/when new painting directives come out the existing scheme is retained until the aircraft completes a scheduled depot level maintenance event where a repaint would occur. Back then typically within 3-4 years IIRC

 

Squadrons were only authorized to perform touch ups and apply unit level markings. 

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On 9/14/2019 at 9:49 PM, Greenshirt said:

Repaints are supposed to occur a Naval Air Repair Facilities (NARF) as part of an overhaul. These later became Naval Aviation Depots (NADEP) and are now called Fleet Readiness Centers. Repaints could also occur during a rebuild by the manufacturer. 

 

If/when new painting directives come out the existing scheme is retained until the aircraft completes a scheduled depot level maintenance event where a repaint would occur. Back then typically within 3-4 years IIRC

 

Squadrons were only authorized to perform touch ups and apply unit level markings. 

 

Thanks for the information ! I was aware that this was the process in the '80s and beyond, if this also applied to the '50s and based on what I've seen of the in-depth disassembly and refinishing done at NADEPs, then all internal surfaces would have likely been refinished according to the most recent specifications.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Following my previous question about F9F-2 colors and as I have read the below topic and the http://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com, I have a cockpit color question.

 

In gull gray/white era (1956-1957) the cockpit in F9F-2 Panthers was dark gull gray and black.

The instruments were definitely black.

The cockpit side walls over the instruments were black?

The cockpit side walls under the instruments were black? (left and right of the ejection seat)

The back of the cockpit was black or grey?

The floor of the cockpit was black most of it and grey up front?

The ejection seat what color it was??? Most photos are with grey seat and black headrest.

 

Or with the new rules that applied , the cockpit was painted dark gull gray and only the instruments were painted black? (like all the later jets) 

 

All photos I have find are from previous eras and cockpits are interior green/black. 

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Nontas

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Thanks for the answer.

I am a huge fan of tailhooktopics.blogspot. It is one of the best sites ever for all enthusiasts of US Navy planes (like me).  

I have seen the specific photo.

For a midnight blue bird before 1954-55 the colors are correct.

For the later ERA of gull gray over white the colors were the same? I believe they changed to dark gull gray and black.

I'll ask also at the blogspot if anyone knows.

Edited by NontasB
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again

 

One more question, since I haven't found the answer yet.

 

The area behind the ejection seat headrest what color would it be in gull grey-white ERA?

 

spacer.png

 

I have seen photos with interior green or black in dark sea blue ERA and grey (?) or black in grey-white ERA.

 

If the cockpit was painted in the later dark gull grey with black consoles and instruments, the plate behind the headrest should be grey or black?

 

spacer.png   spacer.png

 

I have read also that everything above the canopy line would be black (including the plate?)

 

Also the ejection seat seems to be grey too and not with a black headrest as in the most photos that I have seen.

The F9Fs that later transferred to Argentina had black headrests.

("My" Bureau Number is one that later transferred to Argentinian Navy)

 

Anyone with an idea?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Nontas

 

 

Edited by NontasB
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Thanks for the answer Giorgio.

Indeed, black is the most common I guess to both Panthers and Cougars (specially to Cougars).

 

Black is my intention to do , but I want to be sure.

 

The real airplane that I'm building was transferred to Argentinian Navy and now is on display.

What color would the plate be when it was at service? The plate seems heavy weathered in the following photo.

 

USN BuNo 125116 -   Argentinian Serial No 3-A-106

https://www.airfighters.com/photo/9464/L/Argentina-Navy/Grumman-F9F-2-Panther/0421/

 

 

 

 

 

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