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Der Nachtfalter (Moth) Another bits box kreiger

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Now, I wanted to build a Maschinen Kreiger Fledermaus. But you can't get them for love nor money, and I refuse to pay silly prices anyway.



So after a good think, it's back once more to the rapidly depleting spares boxes. (All donations gratefully received and postage etc refunded)

(If I mention models used I'll add a date when they were first built, it may help. Or not)

What I want is a 1/20th VTOL flier which looks like it flew out of a scrapyard. Let's see what happens then.


Take a Revell 1/32nd Phantom (1977), an Italeri SR 71 Blackhawk (1970), an Airfix Heinkel He177 (1980), various other bits and pieces and a metric flowerpot full of Milliput.

(Lots of pictures now follow, some of the parts used have since been replaced).


1/20th Tamiya driver figure. This will be the jockey. The fuselage as shown will change slightly as we progress.



An overall view. I since cut down the wings and the winglets will change too. But it gives a general idea of what I propose.



Underside view. Again, it's since changed a bit. The wheel wells were faired in with scrap plastic and Milliput added.



An updated view from today. The (A-10) canopy is on an Me262 engine cowling.



Cut down wing and the winglet. This will be angled down by about twenty degrees for additional lift.



Here we are underneath again. From right we have He177 lower tail end, Phantom intakes and SR71 engine cowls.



Something missing here I feel.



How about a bit of Airfix 1/24th Typhoon (wing fairing?) to act as an intake and above it part of an Airfix Spitfire engine cowling for another intake.



The original Fledermaus has a spindly fixed undercarriage. I saw one on line built with Harrier type tandem gear and will copy that, because I like it.

These are Airfix C-130 wheels (I've had these since about 1968!) No hubs, what to do? Would you believe Airfix Stalin tank wheels fit perfectly? 

The undercarriage leg is silver plastic and is probably older than those wheels!



The nose leg is 1/32nd Phantom. I'm opting for fixed landing gear. I'll need to make some outriggers later.


Later today I started sticking the forward fuselage together as I'm fairly happy with the configuration now. I've also added some Milliput where required.

That will need rubbing down tomorrow (if I get a chance) along with the wheel bays in the wings. 

As always, questions, comments etc are welcome.

Thanks for looking, Pete




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22 hours ago, Tzulscha said:


Pete has gone off his meds again!

We need someone to tie him down!


Actually....with that wing...that looks kind of cool...


Nurse! I've gone off my meds!

Nurse! He’s of his meds again!


but that canopy tho....



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A bit of an update. First real chance I've had all week, early bed because of early starts. Yes, there are two 3:30's each day!

I got some time at the weekend, and as things progressed the scale changed. I've gone down to 1/32nd. The pictures will show why.



Here we are on Sunday. A different canopy! This was salvaged from a Frog/Hasegawa 1/32nd Me262 first built circa 1977.

I also made wooden spars and glued the wings into position. The rear upper fuselage will change in the near future too.

I wanted to keep it, but I'm not sure if the SR 71 ribbing will survive the filling and rubbing down I need to do.



A close up. Just balanced in place here. It should clean and polish up nicely.

The 1/20th figure I had was obviously too big for this and it's now more in proportion to the size of the model.

I'll save the figure as I want to do another 1/20th Falke scratchbuild. I already have the 1/32nd P-38 for it.



While I was at it I fitted the 262 cockpit too. It needed the side panels cut down but fits quite well.

Lots of Milliput was applied after all this, and it just awaits a good rubbing down session for which I bought some decent 180 grade wet and dry.

I'm away from home most of the weekend, so I'm not sure when the next update will be.

Comments etc welcome as always and thanks for looking.



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  • 2 weeks later...

And I'm back again. It wasn't worth putting up pictures of last weekends work. I just faired in the spine parts with Milliput and left it all to dry for the week.

But, during the week I kept thinking about the build and reached another decision which changes the end result yet again.



What we have here is a rubbish picture of an A-10 engine mounting plate. I chopped up the B-58 and used the spine over the He 177 spine I put on last time.

Then some work with the Dremel and a load more Milliput means that the mounting plate will fit nicely. 



It does mean that the A-10 engines will be fairly close to the wings, but aerodynamically I think it would work as they would be out of the boundary layer area.

The mounting plate isn't glued in yet as I will need to get the spine area all sanded down smooth first. (It pays to think ahead here!).

In the foreground above I've sanded down the old Phantom winglets and made splitter plates to go at the joint. 

I have some metal rod which I will bend to the required angle, measure twice and drill holes and then I'll glue it all up, hopefully the joint will be strong enough.

As I was sanding, the old decals were resisting the 180 wet & dry pretty well. I think they contained spent uranium back in the seventies.


To sum up, what we now have developing will probably not be a VTOL Aircraft but something with a bit of speed, so I think I'll have to re-ponder the landing gear.

This may mean a redesign of the lower fuselage to cater for retractable gear. Hmmm, we shall see.

In the near future though, (maybe tomorrow if the Milliput is dry) lots of sanding.

As always, comments or suggestions (but not that sort) are always welcome.

Thanks for looking, Pete


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Ah...found you, up to your old tricks again Pete! Good.


I do  like the way your builds are very fluid and can change at the slightest intervention of a larger piece of scrap plastic . have to be honest, you sometimes loose me as I am not familiar with all these wonderful machines but there in lies the fascination


As your were..




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Must be time for an update, so here we go....

I've managed to sort landing gear and the back end has sorted itself out into something that I'm happy with (at last).



Slightly out of focus, but it can be seen to be up on wheels at last.



The aforementioned wheels and legs. The wheels are ancient Airfix Hercules while the main legs are 1/48th TSR2 . (Awaiting detailing).

The noseleg is 1/32nd Hasegawa Me262 to which I've added a steering motor and a taxi light.



A close up of the noseleg. It still needs more sorting and the taxilight needs to be lower. Also in view is an auxiliary intake on the left.



Another auxiliary intake view. Ex 1/24th Typhoon bits they sit nicely here. The bulge at the back is a rocket head from the same kit.

I'm not yet sure of the purpose of these intakes, but I'm sure I'll think of something.



The back end. I think the grey bit is 1/48th Airfix Jaguar. The black part in front of it (SR71) had to be cut'n'shut so that they joined up with a smidge or two of filler.



Meanwhile on the upper surface, the A-10 engine mount has been fitted and faired in with filler and I think the Jaguar nose blends in nicely.

I've just been over it again and added more smears of filler which will need to dry before rubbing down. 

These could be the last pictures to show the layers and/or striations (lovely word) of plastic and filler as we must be fairly close to primer time!

As always, comments etc are welcome and thanks for looking.




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15 minutes ago, Tzulscha said:

So, VTOL you say?

No, I abandoned the VTOL aspect earlier, when I realised that I didn't have rocket bells large enough , (as on the Fledermaus). And then went down in scale.

I'd love to know the source of the ones they used on that one.

Which raises a point. Why use rocket engines when they have Anti gravity units as used on the Falke and it's variants?

No, this one is strictly conventional. I've angled the maingear out for a bit of rough field (Ooer) capability and I hope that what I do with the wing will give some STOL capability.

I'm thinking subsonic flight for it's nightfighter role. The nose is rounded to give room for an old fashioned Radar in the normal kreiger WW2 style.

It may be only a model of something that will never exist, but I want it to look like it could actually perform as required.

Thanks for the likes and comments, chaps.



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The rocket bells on the Nitto Fledermaus seem to be main stage F1 engines from the Airfix Saturn V. (I just went and looked)


Considering the size of the engine bells I always wondered what the heck they used as fuel as even one of those using traditional fuel would suck the whole machine inside out in about half a second.

And it carries five...

There does seem to be some kind of impeller or turbine mechanism inside the bell but I've never found an explanation of MaK power sources.

The early fighting suits look to be gasoline piston engine powered.:shrug:

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On 9/29/2019 at 6:38 PM, Tzulscha said:

The early fighting suits look to be gasoline piston engine powered

Yes, there's a short film on you tube showing a guy in a suit and there are shots of the motor starting up. Probably ex Italian motor scooter!

It pays not to question motive power in the kreiger universe. The Falke anti grav units are half ping pong balls with P-38 exhausts. Go figure!

I've had the same thoughts about those rockets, but, overall IMHO it looks good. Bonkers, but good. Thanks for the Saturn V info.

I'll have to see if I can get a cheap one from the bay. All sorts of stuff comes up as part built for spares, you never know.

That 'Jaguar' nose may be from a Mirage, I can't remember now.

Regards, Pete

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I like the bigger canopy you found, that seems to fit better.


This is such a cool design and I look forward to seeing your take on it evolve. There's something about those big engine bells and the weird combination of aerodynamic and unaerodynamic which is really interesting. Evocative of early VTOL experiments.



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On 10/4/2019 at 11:53 PM, Will Vale said:

Evocative of early VTOL experiments.

It's changed rather a bit since I started this thread, Will. It's probably more like a night fighter Javelin by now, as the following pictures should show.

I promised primer and primer you shall have. I did spray over Humbrol filler in places as I wanted to see 'level' as I sanded through the paint.


This shot shows the present size of the beast. Yes, those are 1/32nd Phantom winglets? fitted but with Anhedral not Dihedral. (Sloping down not up).



A closer shot. The wingfence is obvious. Just shaped plastic card. For those not familiar with them, basically it stops the air sliding sideways off the wing.



Slightly out of focus (I'm good at them) but here we see 1/48th A-10 Thunderbolt Ailerons fitted. On the A-10 they act as ailerons and airbrakes. 

Here they would be flaperons (ailerons & flaps).



An underside view. Yes, the lumpy bits are filler. All since sanded down and I need to apply another coat before the weekend.



And a bit forward I've added a couple of intakes. Ex Bf109 with the ends drilled out.



Now, technical bits. Here we have bomb racks in 1/48th. Again from an Italeri A-10. In the front, as they come. In the middle, cut down. At the top, ex 1/72nd Ju88.



A-10 engine mounting. Compare this with earlier shots and you'll see I've straightened them off.



The cut down rack slots into the engine mount and the Ju88 bomb rack fits onto it. (Have faith, stick with me here).



And here we are. The engine sits on top. The reason for all this nonsense is because as originally mounted the engines were too close to the wing surface.



Some careful measuring and the '88' racks fit to the engines using their original mounting 'pips'. Those slots above them are the original mounting holes.

So to sum up, perhaps what I have here is not a Javelin but is better described as a future delta winged A-10 night fighter.

Like all of these builds, it's evolving as time goes on, which I like as it keeps things interesting. I'm not settled on a colour scheme yet but as this is Maschinen kreiger 

and a lot of that is based on WW2 Luftwaffe, then an He219 type mottle has it's plus points I think.


As always, comments and offers of work from Hollywood are always welcome. Thanks for looking, Pete


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John, thanks for asking. Large areas are milliput and the smaller stuff is Humbrol. 

The Humbrol is knocking on for a fiver a tube nowadays and it's basically car body putty. 

I just checked on the big river site, and a 250g tin is less than seven quid. I think I must get one!

Cheers, Pete

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I managed to get a quick coat of grey primer on it yesterday. 

And an inspection today shows yet more places that needed a dab of filler. 

So today's update is entitled, don't look too closely, it will only cost you more time! (and filler).

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On 10/7/2019 at 7:21 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

As always, comments and offers of work from Hollywood are always welcome

 What are you like with cherries?



(Enjoyed catching up with your Krieger-craziness as always Pete. Uber-inventive!) :thumbsup:

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1 minute ago, TheBaron said:

What are you like with cherries?

Onna stick?


To prove that I do read your builds, this week I obtained some thin self adhesive foil from the bay to use on the leading edges of the wings. Thanks for that.

The kreiger craziness keeps me happy and (almost) sane too. Thanks for the good words.


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