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Japanese Pearl Harbour attack aircraft?


One 48

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LOL ... You cant make it up.

We have some Prima Donna's here for sure.

Extreme examples of why I once stopped scale moddelling (but chose to come back) who really needs this arguing about detail, who is it helping?

Its Rivet counters that often spoil things, please don't get me wrong, we all love accuracy, but when it gets to this level, bickering and falling out with each other, something is extremely fundamentally wrong ... and its not my casual attitude to the hobby that is at fault.

For heaven’s sake, its just a hobby, let it go and enjoy ... please.

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12 hours ago, One 48 said:

LOL ... You cant make it up.

We have some Prima Donna's here for sure.

 

I'm quoting one.

 

12 hours ago, One 48 said:

Extreme examples of why I once stopped scale moddelling (but chose to come back) who really needs this arguing about detail, who is it helping?

 

I'm sorry for you. It isn't helping, but there are those who know on this thread and there is you who seems incapable of absorbing new information, let alone being grateful for people giving it to you for free. You keep writing things which are demonstrably false in contradiction to those who have spent much more time and effort researching the subject and who gave up their time to share what they had learned.

 

12 hours ago, One 48 said:

Its Rivet counters that often spoil things, please don't get me wrong, we all love accuracy, but when it gets to this level, bickering and falling out with each other, something is extremely fundamentally wrong ... and its not my casual attitude to the hobby that is at fault.

 

With the exception of you, the rest of us seem fairly aligned that in 1941 the Japanese paint industry was quite exacting, that the colours are known, that factory applied paint was fairly robust and that for anyone who wishes it, good practical guidance for modellers is easily available. You are doing exactly as Nick Millman wrote about - attacking knowledge using the very pejorative he used as an example - "rivet counters". If we could have Nick back here as a regular poster I for one would be delighted.

 

Nobody has or ever had a problem with your casual attitude to the hobby. The problem is with your repeated posting of false statements about Japanese paint quality and inferrence that anyone who knows more than you must be "ruining the hobby".

 

What harms this hobby is people who make special efforts at being wrong, deliberately misguiding others and chasing away those who make a positive contribution to it by sacrificing their own modelling time to painstaking and often expensive research and then sharing what they've gleaned for the benefit of all.

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If you enter this discussion with little interest in reseached facts you are likely to commit two errors: (1) to generalise and (2) not to understand why something happened.

 

(1) A generalisation would be: "Japanese WW2 Aircraft show such quickly deteriorating states of paint finish quality".

First of all we talk about two independent air arms - The IJN and the IJAAF. IJN aircraft generally had very resistent paint coats and were well maintained. There was much less chipping than assumed by less conversant modellers. Right up to the end of the war ground crews were ordered to keep planes in good shape, often cleaning the surface with oily rags. IJAAF airplanes were mostly camouflaged in the field (depot or frontline) without primer being used. Such colour coats did not stick too well.

Second, it depends on the period. The early war time saw standardised paint schemes and less field application (at least in the case of the IJN), thus they were more stable.

Third, the theatre of operation matters. Strong fading was only observed in the SWPA and Central Pacific areas, but was generally less pronounced than on USAAF OD  and US Navy intermediate blue camouflages.

Fourth, some airplanes seem to have been a little more susceptical to chipping like the D4Y, maybe caused by a poor primer (?)

 

(2) The why:

Firstly, Most picture "evidence" for the alleged strong colour deterioration stems from after-war scrap heap photos taken by US occupation forces and found on internet. These aircraft had been exposed to the elements for months without care. Operational pictures of Japanese sources (usually not found on internet) show perfectly painted planes even in the last year of war.

Second, colour chipping took place were there was a lot of crew activity, like cockpit entry areas, gun and other access panels, around control surfaces, etc.

Third, some production runs of the same plane were camouflaged in the field (e.g. Ki-84 early, over NM) but were later due to a change in policy painted at the factory in different colours (Ki-84 as of November 1944). The change in deterioration was considerable with the later ones being the better ones. Another example would be the late J3M5 which seems to have been delivered in NM at war's end and was hastily camouflaged, therefore you also find different results (actually very few were deteriorated - The J3M usually looked rather good).

 

I hope this incomplete description helps to understand why personal knowledge and research of the subject is not completely in vain, or even a luxury.

 

Happy modelling, Michael

 

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Troy, I agree with @dogsbody and others who agree with you. I just read @Toryu's posting which was put on as I wrote this. Also a great post. The differences between the IJAAF/IJA and the IJN are important, too. When materials are in short supply; other items are used that are often not as good. Whole books have been written about this. And trust me, I have made my share of mistakes as well.

Joe

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Im shutting this one down as its pretty much gone south.

 

Very disappointing, dont start a thread if you dont want answers, also if you can see the poster does not want to listen dont keep banging the same dead horse.

 

Julien

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