AV Vallejo home made thinner

[CasualModel98]

AV Vallejo has been very secretive about its thinner composition. The paint is a polyurethane mix and does not dissolve with alcohol. Water does not wash it well either.

I recently got my hands on a bottle of Butyl Cellosolve and realized that it smelt the same as the AV thinner. I got a 500ml bottle for GBP3 to make my own thinner for AV.

 

Here is the result:

A is with AV's own thinner and T is the test I ran using my own mix of 10% Butyl Cellosolve, 30% IPA and 60% water.

The levelling effect is the same, the drying times are similar and the paint texture looks similar.

 

When I used it to wash a paint brush after painting with Vallejo paint, the paint washes off and does not gum up.

 

 

Butyl Cellosolve is a butyl ether and used as a solvent for acrylic resin. Its other names are 2-Butoxyethanol, Butyl glycol or EGBE (ethylene glycol monobutyl ether).

A 500ml bottle costing GBP3 can make me a 5 liter batch of thinner or airbrush cleaner.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by CasualModel98

[gavingav1]

Where did you buy the Butyl Cellosolve from?, it is the same as Vallejo thinner as i have been using it for a couple of years but need a new supply, it is also known as solvaset and 10% mix makes the best decal solvent money can buy .

[Baran İşmen]

Luckily I've found this!

Recently I've been investigating the ingredients of Airbrush Cleaner & Thinner, which literally smells, feels and works the same in practice. As the prices for these two are getting higher and higher recently where i live, I had to find a better & cheaper option. I've first tried the traditional %33 IPA - %66 Water - %1 Glyserol mixture (so-called homebrew acrylic thinner). It's quite good for cleaning the remaining paints and stuff inside the airbrush, but for thinning the Model Air's, it's not hitting the spot. So I had to improve it. Definitely better with Model Color's though, as the guy who suggested me this solution was using Model Color's with his cheapo airbrush and absolutely no problems. Quite interesting..

 

According to the MSDS of A.Cleaner, it contains %17 of Butyl Glycol. I'll soon buy a Liter of this guy and make several mixtures. It'll take some time to hit the perfect spot though, but i think IPA ratio should not be that much as it dissolves the paint in a different way. Maybe I'll begin with a ratio of %20 B.Glycol / % 60-65 Water / %15-20 IPA and couple drops of Glycerol for that oily, smooth surface of the original thing (which I assume also delay the paint dry on airbrush tip)

Forgot to say that I'm mainly using Model Air's.

Will update this when I got a bottle of Butyl and test the various mixtures.

 

Cheers all,

Baran

[CasualModel98]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:18 PM, gavingav said:

Where did you buy the Butyl Cellosolve from?, it is the same as Vallejo thinner as i have been using it for a couple of years but need a new supply, it is also known as solvaset and 10% mix makes the best decal solvent money can buy .

I bought in on Amazon India website when I was in India. It has different names as well, so need to search for it 

Butyl Cellusolve, Butoxyethanol, Butyl Glycol and Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether.

[CasualModel98]

On 10/1/2019 at 11:28 PM, Baran İşmen said:

Luckily I've found this!

Recently I've been investigating the ingredients of Airbrush Cleaner & Thinner, which literally smells, feels and works the same in practice. As the prices for these two are getting higher and higher recently where i live, I had to find a better & cheaper option. I've first tried the traditional %33 IPA - %66 Water - %1 Glyserol mixture (so-called homebrew acrylic thinner). It's quite good for cleaning the remaining paints and stuff inside the airbrush, but for thinning the Model Air's, it's not hitting the spot. So I had to improve it. Definitely better with Model Color's though, as the guy who suggested me this solution was using Model Color's with his cheapo airbrush and absolutely no problems. Quite interesting..

 

According to the MSDS of A.Cleaner, it contains %17 of Butyl Glycol. I'll soon buy a Liter of this guy and make several mixtures. It'll take some time to hit the perfect spot though, but i think IPA ratio should not be that much as it dissolves the paint in a different way. Maybe I'll begin with a ratio of %20 B.Glycol / % 60-65 Water / %15-20 IPA and couple drops of Glycerol for that oily, smooth surface of the original thing (which I assume also delay the paint dry on airbrush tip)

Forgot to say that I'm mainly using Model Air's.

Will update this when I got a bottle of Butyl and test the various mixtures.

 

Cheers all,

Baran

I find that if I use IPA+Water+Glyserol, the IPA will gum up the AV paint. Seems like AV paint do not like IPA. I am surprised you got it to work!

 

[Baran İşmen]

51 minutes ago, CasualModel98 said:

I find that if I use IPA+Water+Glyserol, the IPA will gum up the AV paint. Seems like AV paint do not like IPA. I am surprised you got it to work!

 

It certainly doesn't like IPA at all, that's why I'm using this mixture just for cleaning instead of thinning.

I prepared a Liter of bottle with a sharp tip, after painting is done, I just fill the airbrush cap half, back-spray by holding the tip of airbrush, then spray the whole mixture thru, then with a towel i clean inside the cup, spray again a little more mixture, then for final stage i spray 3-4 drops of vallejo's airbrush cleaner, otherwise when this mixture dries up in the airbrush even after cleaning, the needle becomes sticky for a reason i don't know. Airbrush cleaner prevents that probably due to it's oily chemistry.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Baran İşmen

[nheather]

On 10/1/2019 at 6:18 AM, gavingav said:

Where did you buy the Butyl Cellosolve from?, it is the same as Vallejo thinner as i have been using it for a couple of years but need a new supply, it is also known as solvaset and 10% mix makes the best decal solvent money can buy .

 

From what I have read on this thread, this sounds like the same stuff.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Butoxyethanol-Butyl-Glycol-99-1L/293065120308?hash=item443c0ada34:g:lJwAAOSwTUdcwwC9

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[CasualModel98]

On 10/1/2019 at 11:28 PM, Baran İşmen said:

Luckily I've found this!

Recently I've been investigating the ingredients of Airbrush Cleaner & Thinner, which literally smells, feels and works the same in practice. As the prices for these two are getting higher and higher recently where i live, I had to find a better & cheaper option. I've first tried the traditional %33 IPA - %66 Water - %1 Glyserol mixture (so-called homebrew acrylic thinner). It's quite good for cleaning the remaining paints and stuff inside the airbrush, but for thinning the Model Air's, it's not hitting the spot. So I had to improve it. Definitely better with Model Color's though, as the guy who suggested me this solution was using Model Color's with his cheapo airbrush and absolutely no problems. Quite interesting..

 

According to the MSDS of A.Cleaner, it contains %17 of Butyl Glycol. I'll soon buy a Liter of this guy and make several mixtures. It'll take some time to hit the perfect spot though, but i think IPA ratio should not be that much as it dissolves the paint in a different way. Maybe I'll begin with a ratio of %20 B.Glycol / % 60-65 Water / %15-20 IPA and couple drops of Glycerol for that oily, smooth surface of the original thing (which I assume also delay the paint dry on airbrush tip)

Forgot to say that I'm mainly using Model Air's.

Will update this when I got a bottle of Butyl and test the various mixtures.

 

Cheers all,

Baran

I find that if I use IPA+Water+Glyserol, the IPA will gum up the AV paint. Seems like AV paint do not like IPA. I am surprised you got it to work!

 

[CasualModel98]

1 hour ago, nheather said:

 

From what I have read on this thread, this sounds like the same stuff.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Butoxyethanol-Butyl-Glycol-99-1L/293065120308?hash=item443c0ada34:g:lJwAAOSwTUdcwwC9

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

Cheaper in India, about half price. Ha ha. 

[Baran İşmen]

Just got my bottle of 1 Liter Butyl Glycol. Oh god, it has the same odour of Airbrush Cleaner, Airbrush Thinner, Flow Improver and also Micro Sol. 😂😂😂

Only thing is that it's not that oily, instead when it dries in your skin, it feels kinda dry on that area and whitens. I think one needs to add something to make it greasy/oily.

Will share my experiences when I try with colors.

[Baran İşmen]

Now I wonder what to use for making a home brew flow aid/retarder.

 

Some sources say that such agents contains Mono Ethylene Glycol, which is oily and used with paints and stuff to provide application easiness.

 

I also doubt that AV thinners/cleaners/flow aid's contain a similar stuff inside in different rations as they are oily as well. Maybe regular Glycerol would work as well, dunno.

[Baran İşmen]

All right test results are here.

Warning, this pure Butyl Glycol is strong for both smell and thinning / cleaning capabilities, also if it dries on your skin, it gives a dry feeling in that area. Rinse with water immediately otherwise it gives you a weird feeling.

 

I've put three empty paint cups in front of me, and dropped 5 drops of Model Air Bronze Green to each of them. Also I've prepared a simple mixture beforehand; it's like %33 Butyl and %67 Tap Water (as i didn't have dist. water in handy).

 

* In the first one, I've dropped 3 drops of Butyl, nothing else. I've observed that after 15-20 seconds, it dissolves the paint into its pigments and doesn't adhere the paint throughly. So strong for the paint to use it alone, rather for cleaning i guess.

 

* In the second one, I've dropped 3 drops of original Airbrush Cleaner, it acted as it should be and thinned the paint supposedly, thins the paint homogenously. Note that, A.Cleaner and A.Thinner -even Flow Improver- works the same way, i think the only difference of them is their Butyl ratio. They all even smell the same.

 

* In the third one, I've dropped 3 drops of the mixture I've prepared (33 Butyl/66 Water), and it acted just like the original stuff, same consistency, same reactions, same homogenousity.

Then I've sprayed the Vallejo's black primer and M.Air Bronze Green from airbrush separately. 20 PSI, roughly 2 Paint / 1 Thinner mixture. Flows good, adheres good, dries good. Quite happy with the results. I've also added some of Butyl into my home-made airbrush cleaner mixture as well (which is %30 IPA,%65 Water, %5 Acetone and some drops of Glycerine) for a complete cleanup.

Maybe some drops of Mono Ethylene Glycol can be added to this mixture as well for retarding agent, as some say that it's the main agent used in retarders/flow aids, or maybe Glycerol would work as well but don't know, need more experiments.

 

Summary :

 

Home-made AV Vallejo Thinner -> %33 Butyl Glycol / %66 Distilled or Tap Water (optionally few drops of Glycerine or Ethylene Glycol, not tested yet)
 

Home-made AV Vallejo Cleaner -> %30 IPA / % 60 Water / %5 Acetone / %5 Butyl Glycol / 10-20 Drops of Glycerine (IPA/Acetone & Butyl ratios can be altered, this one seems more Tamiya/Gunze focused and based on various sources in the Internet, increasing the Butyl and decreasing the IPA/Acetone ratio(s) would make it more AV friendly, but this current formula works quite fine for Vallejo's as well. Need some free time to test all of these one by one)

Regards,
Baran
 

[CasualModel98]

Thanks for contributing the results. Always the key is whether we can get a mix that is much cheaper than the original yet with the same results on a $ per litre basis. Otherwise we might as well just buy the original and save ourselves the trouble.

 

For my part I just use 1/3 butyl glycol, 2/3 distilled water and some drops of glycerol/glycerine.  I don't think you need to add IPA as based on my experience, AV just gums up with IPA. I have some Acetone, will try that to see if it further aids the mixture. Problem is Acetone has a fast evaporation speed.

 

I spray with Acrylics as well as with Lacquer paint. Its a pain to keep both types of paint but I intend to convert to acrylics when my lacquer runs out.

For lacquer, I add the butyl glycol to the lacquer thinner (Acetone and Tolulene), to slow down the drying and let it level out.

 

[Baran İşmen]

20 hours ago, CasualModel98 said:

Thanks for contributing the results. Always the key is whether we can get a mix that is much cheaper than the original yet with the same results on a $ per litre basis. Otherwise we might as well just buy the original and save ourselves the trouble.

 

For my part I just use 1/3 butyl glycol, 2/3 distilled water and some drops of glycerol/glycerine.  I don't think you need to add IPA as based on my experience, AV just gums up with IPA. I have some Acetone, will try that to see if it further aids the mixture. Problem is Acetone has a fast evaporation speed.

 

I spray with Acrylics as well as with Lacquer paint. Its a pain to keep both types of paint but I intend to convert to acrylics when my lacquer runs out.

For lacquer, I add the butyl glycol to the lacquer thinner (Acetone and Tolulene), to slow down the drying and let it level out.

 

You're welcome.

 

I also discovered that, if you have small paint imperfections, Butyl can fix that with the help of a 5/0 brush. Just dab the brush into butyl, wipe the excess, and apply over the mistakes. I've just tried on a surface with Future coated, and it leaves some stain over Future if heavily or wet applied, so be careful. Other types of varnishes may not affect, don't know.

 

IPA is just ,included in my cleaner mixture, just for making sure there's nothing left in the airbrush when cleaning.

 

Cheers,

Baran

[banzaiduke]

Thanks for the testing done. Saved me a packet.

[Iaroslav Kliuiev]

Big thanks for those recipes. Initial expenses are a little bit higher than single Valejo  thinner, because smallest amount of  Butyl Glycol that I found was 1 liter, but as it does not seem to spoil, it will be almost endless supply for me. 

@Baran İşmen just to be clear: you are talking about volumetric percents here (e.g. measured by syringe or by laboratory-level graded pipette), not about mass percents (measured by weightening), is that right?

[Slammer88]

On 09/01/2021 at 23:40, Iaroslav Kliuiev said:

Big thanks for those recipes. Initial expenses are a little bit higher than single Valejo  thinner, because smallest amount of  Butyl Glycol that I found was 1 liter, but as it does not seem to spoil, it will be almost endless supply for me. 

@Baran İşmen just to be clear: you are talking about volumetric percents here (e.g. measured by syringe or by laboratory-level graded pipette), not about mass percents (measured by weightening), is that right?

Thats right, its on percent basis mate. 

[Slammer88]

Hi again. I just want to make an update. 

 

Recently i had gotten a bottle of mpg, mobo propylene glycol, which is industrial glycerine, mainly used for vaporizers and such. Well, that was the missing ingredient i say. I added around 7 8 percent to my thinner mixture, and both MC and ma series are easily airbrushed under 20 psi with less dry tip. Whats surprising is, it dries within 4 5 seconds after sprayed, so dont be afraid of the amount of mpg ratio, it gives a great fluidity and consistency to the paint Flow. 

 

Cheers

Baran 

[banzaiduke]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but has anybody had problems with mixing this with Vallejo Model Air ? Initially this worked perfectly but recently this has been turning my paint to gloop like it has alcohol in it but fresh mixes have had the same outcome. Have mixed in metal and plastic cups but same mess has happened. Any ideas ?

[MrMellie]

On 14/10/2019 at 11:29, Baran İşmen said:

Just got my bottle of 1 Liter Butyl Glycol. Oh god, it has the same odour of Airbrush Cleaner, Airbrush Thinner, Flow Improver and also Micro Sol. 😂😂😂

Only thing is that it's not that oily, instead when it dries in your skin, it feels kinda dry on that area and whitens. I think one needs to add something to make it greasy/oily.

Will share my experiences when I try with colors.

 

Big thank you for this! A long while back I found a tutorial on Youtube where the guy was weathering using gouache thinned with Micro Sol. I tried it and it worked great, the only problem being Micro Sol is a bloody expensive thing to use for thinning at £5 for 28ml! I spent ages searching about, couldn't find and MSDS sheets and no one seem to know the "active" ingredient. Now you've nailed it, I have 1l of Butyl glycol, more than enough to keep me going a lifetime of modelling.

 

I've knocked up some thinners based on you recipe above and it's worked a treat on Model Air paints too (not that I had a problem with my water/IPA thinner before, but it's nice to have options).

[MrMellie]

On 26/07/2023 at 21:11, banzaiduke said:

Sorry to resurrect this thread but has anybody had problems with mixing this with Vallejo Model Air ? Initially this worked perfectly but recently this has been turning my paint to gloop like it has alcohol in it but fresh mixes have had the same outcome. Have mixed in metal and plastic cups but same mess has happened. Any ideas ?

 

I've just this week got hold of my Butyl Glycol and made up some thinners, it worked fine. The one thing I found with some palette testing is that if the mix is too strong, the paint will gloop up. Try reducing the strength with more water. Even IPA works with Vallejo when let down enough, that was my go-to thinner mix prior to finding this thread.