F-84F Thunderstreak, various colours

[Fido996]

Hi there, I'm after a little guidance regarding cockpit colours. I'm about to start the Hobbyboss F-84F and decided to upgrade to an Aires cockpit. So, in researching various bits and pieces before committing to anything, I find myself a little confused as to the cockpit colours. Interior green, grey or black? I'm kind of ignoring the Hobbyboss colour callout as they suggest painting the entire airframe grey when I believe it should be natural metal.

 

Also, the wheel wells and gear doors. Hobby boss say Interior green, but I have a three view drawing of the same airframe which clearly shows Chromate Yellow on the doors.

 

The airframe in question is 52-6675 which I think is an F-84F-45-RE if thats any help.

 

 

[Wez]

As a -45 the cockpit should be interior green with black instrument panel and consoles.  The seat would be interior green too with a red headrest.

 

I'd agree that the wheel wells and gear doors should be yellow zinc chromate.

[Fido996]

That's great, thank you very much.

 

Quite like the idea of the Chromate Yellow, nice bit of variation.👍

[bentwaters81tfw]

I'm staying schtum over certain items at present, but I can tell you the pit and the IP is light gray (being an American aircraft). Looking at very recent pictures of a certain unrestored F-84F, I can confirm this.

There was another thread recently where the interior of the gun bay etc was questioned. 

There are pictures on the web of a 'restored' F-84F with a bilious green cockpit and a black IP, and there are pictures of gray with black. The seat is also gray with a red headrest.

Ask me more in about a month if you are in no hurry.

[72modeler]

31 minutes ago, Fido996 said:

Also, the wheel wells and gear doors. Hobby boss say Interior green, but I have a three view drawing of the same airframe which clearly shows Chromate Yellow on the doors.

See if this link is helpful.

Mike

 

https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-84/f-84f_to.shtml

 

[Wez]

28 minutes ago, Jordi said:

Any USAF aircraft manufactured after late 1953 had a Dark Gull Gray (FS36231) cockpit.  I have never seen a US jet with an Interior Green cockpit, and I have poked my head into more than a few.  

 

The wheel wells were FS34151 Interior Green.  Zinc Chromate was not authorized as a final finish color on visible areas of USAF types in the 1950s.

The Aerofax book (which is not to hand at the moment), states that the earlier aircraft were in green and the later blocks (IIRC blocks 60 or 70 onwards), had dark gull grey cockpits, was this the case?  Did the USAF only operate the later aircraft or did they repaint their cockpits at some point?

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Boeing were building B-47s during the early 1950s still applying Bronze Green #9 in cockpits which was supposed to have been replaced with ANA611 Interior Green in 1943. 

[bentwaters81tfw]

From at least block 51 onwards were gray.

[Fido996]

So, if l go gray cockpit and green wheel wells and doors I should be on fairly safe ground?

[fubar57]

OK, re-posting. I have 3 images of the RF-84F cockpit which I'm assuming is close to the F-84F. If you want the pics, PM me your email and I will send them to you. The caption states, " Cockpit RF-84F Luftwaffe: Instruments Tops of consoles matte black, other panels light gray. In the middle is the viewfinder determination of the image section, here provided with a cover flap. Above it is the visor for the four board MG." Apologies as this is from my Google Translate app. The book is the F-40 series "Republic RF-84F Thunderflash"

Edited August 29, 2019 by fubar57

[mdauben]

A very interesting discussion on interior colors, given the Tamiya F-84G model in my queue.

Edited August 30, 2019 by mdauben

[Rob de Bie]

One more vote for grey. This is a cockpit section formerly on display in the old Soesterberg museum, The dash says 'radio call 6726', you can probably find the serial and block number with that.

 

 

 

 

Rob

Edited August 30, 2019 by Rob de Bie

[Starfighter]

I have the F40 series book on German F-84's, and all the cockpits in the photos are dark gull grey. as is the instrument panel ( With black dials, of course ) . HTH . 

[bentwaters81tfw]

OK guys. This is F-84F-51-RE 52-7133, which arrived at the museum in the pouring rain this morning. Take your pick regarding primer and interior colours.

This is the fin where it bolts onto the kingpost above the all flying stab..

Yellow Chromate, plus 3 shades of green.

Port fuselage side under wing fillet.

Kingpost/rear fin attachment point

Rear fuselage interior. It's a bit dark but flash would distort the colours.

Speed brakes have a stainless steel skin, the aluminium backs and bay are painted red.

As yet we have not opened up the gear and gunbays. It will be some time before we get around to restoration as the airframe has been in dry store for 30 years, so until then, I'm not committing to the correct colours. Based on what you see above, I would aim to match to the kingpost and jetpipe colours.

 

[Lightningboy2000]

Hi Frank, just seen the BCWM post on Facebook!

Bl**dy superb news at last!

I was wondering the other day if you guys had managed to get that Streak out of that hangar like you said you were going to!

I really do need to try & get over there & take some pics of it, but you & Julien can upload some walkaround pics for us.

It will look fantastic when its done!

 

Martin

[bentwaters81tfw]

7 minutes ago, Lightningboy2000 said:

Hi Frank, just seen the BCWM post on Facebook!

Bl**dy superb news at last!

I was wondering the other day if you guys had managed to get that Streak out of that hangar like you said you were going to!

I really do need to try & get over there & take some pics of it, but you & Julien can upload some walkaround pics for us.

It will look fantastic when its done!

 

Martin

This will be the finished article - in time. Our society Honourary President's former machine.

[Lightningboy2000]

Now that will be one stunning Thunderstreak!

[f111guru]

On 8/29/2019 at 11:50 AM, Fido996 said:

Hi there, I'm after a little guidance regarding cockpit colours. I'm about to start the Hobbyboss F-84F and decided to upgrade to an Aires cockpit. So, in researching various bits and pieces before committing to anything, I find myself a little confused as to the cockpit colours. Interior green, grey or black? I'm kind of ignoring the Hobbyboss colour callout as they suggest painting the entire airframe grey when I believe it should be natural metal.

 

Also, the wheel wells and gear doors. Hobby boss say Interior green, but I have a three view drawing of the same airframe which clearly shows Chromate Yellow on the doors.

 

The airframe in question is 52-6675 which I think is an F-84F-45-RE if thats any help.

 

 

Not sure if this will ease the confusion on the colors within the frame of the F-84F, but: These are from 51-1810-30-RE. It's a gate guard at Cannon AFB New Mexico. All of the frame work including the wheel wells are painted overall aluminum. However the pictures I took of the wheel wells show some chipping and interior green behind it.

Officially one would have to look at T.O.1-1-4 for the painting guide or if you have pictures of your subject, paint it as it is in your reference photos. My 2 cent thought.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Wez]

On 25/09/2019 at 15:19, bentwaters81tfw said:

Port fuselage side under wing fillet.

Kingpost/rear fin attachment point

 

What I love about this photo is those rivets.  Notice how they are the softest of depressions in 1:1 scale, not deep divots as portrayed in certain kits or by advocates of a so called rivetting tool.  Scale these 1:1 scale items up to 1/48th you wouldn't see them, they'd be invisible in 1/72nd!

 

What those tools an portrayals of rivets actually reproduce are holes more akin to those in the green section which are crying out for a fastener to plug them.

 

Thnks for sharing.

[bentwaters81tfw]

2 hours ago, Wez said:

 

What I love about this photo is those rivets.  Notice how they are the softest of depressions in 1:1 scale, not deep divots as portrayed in certain kits or by advocates of a so called rivetting tool.  Scale these 1:1 scale items up to 1/48th you wouldn't see them, they'd be invisible in 1/72nd!

 

What those tools an portrayals of rivets actually reproduce are holes more akin to those in the green section which are crying out for a fastener to plug them.

 

Thnks for sharing.

The 'rivets' are cross head screws, going into captive nuts. Where will have to re-skin some areas, muggins here will have to drill them all out. No way will I ever shift them after 65 years and layers of paint in some cases.

[Wez]

11 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

The 'rivets' are cross head screws, going into captive nuts. Where will have to re-skin some areas, muggins here will have to drill them all out. No way will I ever shift them after 65 years and layers of paint in some cases.

Can you confirm that when you do the job?  Although not a rigger myself I see enough rivets close up on a daily basis and there are a number of propriatory types of rivet with a cross head dimple in them, to me it looks like a countersunk rivet, the spacing is too close for screws but I've never been that close to a Republic product to see how they do business.  I'd be interested to see if there are nutplates behind those rivets or rivet collars?  Either way, if that's the case it would explain why the Thunderstreak was so damned heavy.

[bentwaters81tfw]

35 minutes ago, Wez said:

Can you confirm that when you do the job?  Although not a rigger myself I see enough rivets close up on a daily basis and there are a number of propriatory types of rivet with a cross head dimple in them, to me it looks like a countersunk rivet, the spacing is too close for screws but I've never been that close to a Republic product to see how they do business.  I'd be interested to see if there are nutplates behind those rivets or rivet collars?  Either way, if that's the case it would explain why the Thunderstreak was so damned heavy.

It will be a mix. Anything removable is screwed, but the airframe is painted overall. We will only remove what is necessary. The wings are covered in screws, and as you say - heavy. Each wing is around 2 tons. The remainder is flush riveted skins, and the horizontal stab will require about 50% re-skinning from an initial inspection. When you tap your knuckles on a Republic airframe, you can tell the difference. The Groundhog and the Warthog are SOLID. The T-33 is less so.

[bentwaters81tfw]

Just an update on this old thread.

Indeed Republic do use captive nutplates. Lots of the screws and bolts do nothing much but plug holes.

As for reskinning, the worst corrosion is in the horizontal stab - but Republic did such a good job, that application of a wire spider brush in an angle grinder has resulted in elimination of the corrosion with no significant problems. We will be able to get away with around 3 small areas by way of BDR, and the other repairs are filling and re-profiling the surface. The bulk of the airframe is now sanded and/or treated with corrosion inhibitor and final restoration of the horizontal stab is under way.

We hope to have her on her wheels in the near future.

[Rob de Bie]

17 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Just an update on this old thread.

Indeed Republic do use captive nutplates. Lots of the screws and bolts do nothing much but plug holes.

As for reskinning, the worst corrosion is in the horizontal stab - but Republic did such a good job, that application of a wire spider brush in an angle grinder has resulted in elimination of the corrosion with no significant problems. We will be able to get away with around 3 small areas by way of BDR, and the other repairs are filling and re-profiling the surface. The bulk of the airframe is now sanded and/or treated with corrosion inhibitor and final restoration of the horizontal stab is under way.

We hope to have her on her wheels in the near future.

 

Thanks for the update! In an earlier post you wrote that it will be painted as "Our society Honourary President's former machine." Was he the pilot or the crewchief? Either way, would he be available for some questions regarding the stores of the aircraft?

 

I worked for three years on a project to document all stores used by the RNLAF F-84F.  To support the research, I built all stores in 1/48 scale. About half the stores are kits or aftermarket, the rest was scratchbuilt or kitbashed. Everything is fitted with small magnets, so every imaginable configuration can be assembled in seconds, see below. The full story can be found here: https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/f84f.htm.

 

I'm now preparing for interviews with former RNLAF F-84F pilots. With a little luck the first one will take place in a couple of days. But I would really like to ask a few questions to anyone involved with USAFE Streaks!

 

 

Rob

 

 

[bentwaters81tfw]

He was/still is a pilot, though advanced in years now. We hope to have the machine finished for him to see, though he lives in USA, and still flies in the F-100F when he can afford to. Bear in mind, these were out of USAFE front line service in 1957. What ANG or the Luftwaffe did with them afterwards is another matter

Harry Eckes. Look for him on youtube.

Here is another photo of him in the 'hot' seat!

 

These guys toted practice Mk7s, as that was their Etre. And sat Victor alert with real ones. Aside from that, up to 4 drop tanks, aluminium inboard, and ali or fibreglass outboard.