RidgeRunner Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 4 hours ago, 72modeler said: I can heartily recommend getting Thunderchief- The Complete History of the Republic F-105, by Dennis R. Jenkins. The most complete and detailed Thud reference. I thought I knew a lot about the Thud, but this book really opened my eyes! (Thanks for the heads-up, @RidgeRunner!) Yes, Mike, anyone with a love of the Thud needs this book. They should also have the James Geer book on Thud squadron histories - possibly even better! M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, RidgeRunner said: Yes, Mike, anyone with a love of the Thud needs this book. They should also have the James Geer book on Thud squadron histories - possibly even better! M Just ordered the former one... so you say I need a second one? Better build my Monogram F/G model one day! 😛 Edited August 29, 2019 by exdraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistervampire319 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, 72modeler said: I was not aware that the late Paul Allen's group had one- sure hope they can cut through all the red tape and get her in the air. I believe the JF-105 that used to be at Lackland has gone to another museum collection, but wasn't aware that the remaining examples had been demilled- how was this done? With all the post-911 security, it's a pain in the tail turret to get access to the base to measure/photograph the collection anymore, so I haven't been out there in ten years or so- afraid of what I will see when I do. Thanks for the information. (I'm still wee weed as a newt that they repainted their very rare RP-63G Pinball from its original international orange to silver lacquer!) Mike Don't know about the whereabouts now. But the JF model was there back in 1999 when I was at Lackland for a few days. All the 105's that were at the MP training area a few years back were finally removed and donated to museums. I saw some photos of them spiking the engines so they won't be used. It's ridiculously hard to get on any base now a days. Unless you're a terrorist. Also as for Paul Allen's I think he had failed as well to get it in the air. Since his passing it is probably a lost cause now. Edited August 30, 2019 by sinistervampire319 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 hours ago, sinistervampire319 said: All the 105's that were at the MP training area a few years back were finally removed and donated to museums Actually that would be the SP as in Security Police, or as the little snowflakes call themselves now, Security Forces, training area. I spent a few weeks there in October and November of 1974 getting trained as an Air Force Security Police Security specialist. MPs are Army and maybe Marines. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, exdraken said: Just ordered the former one... so you say I need a second one? Better build my Monogram F/G model one day! 😛 I’d say yes. The Jenkins book is great for the type, tech detail etc. The Geer book covers unit histories and has a wealth of in-service photos. I have almost every Thud book and would say these two are the best to give a comprehensive coverage. Martin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: I’d say yes. The Jenkins book is great for the type, tech detail etc. The Geer book covers unit histories and has a wealth of in-service photos. I have almost every Thud book and would say these two are the best to give a comprehensive coverage. Martin Wow! Just looked it up. Easily available, but 70++€$ for a 2002 book? Is it realy that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, exdraken said: Wow! Just looked it up. Easily available, but 70++€$ for a 2002 book? Is it realy that good? In my view it is, but I paid £40ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 8 hours ago, e8n2 said: Actually that would be the SP as in Security Police, or as the little snowflakes call themselves now, Security Forces, training area. I spent a few weeks there in October and November of 1974 getting trained as an Air Force Security Police Security specialist. MPs are Army and maybe Marines. Later, Dave Actually AP, MP, SP would all be correct, as Lackland does the training for military security police for all of the services now. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: In my view it is, but I paid £40ish. @exdraken PM inbound Martin Edited August 30, 2019 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: @exdraken PM inbound Martin PM got kicked back - says you are not receiving messages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 15 hours ago, 72modeler said: Actually AP, MP, SP would all be correct, as Lackland does the training for military security police for all of the services now. Mike AP? Way back before I ever got there the AF changed the name from Air Police to Security Police, probably around the mid to late 60s. At the time I went through their, we didn't have any grunts out there only us AF types. Not sure how much the Army has aircraft on alert to fly combat missions, at least stateside. We would have people walking around the aircraft as a close-in sentry for an aircraft on alert to fly a combat mission like the aircraft that could drop bombs that make mushroom clouds. Then you would also have people walking the fence line around the area those aircraft were parked. At least that was how it was before I got out in the field. Then we had electronic sensors for the perimeter fencing. When I left England and went back to Offutt, SAC headquarters it was more like the old system but with telephone booth size shacks for the close boundary sentries. Glad I got out of that career field. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 hours ago, e8n2 said: AP? Way back before I ever got there the AF changed the name from Air Police to Security Police, probably around the mid to late 60s. That's when my Dad was still in- he retired in '69, and they were still AP's then. I'm guessing the biggest percentage of guards are used now for patrolling on base or to man the various gates, although, sad to say, a good deal of that duty seems to be in the hands of civilian contracted personnel nowadays. In the good old days, when you would drive on or off base, the security guards would look at the windshield sticker or license plate if overseas, and if it was an officer's car, would come to attention and give you a hand salute, I remembering my dad explaining to me when my Mom or I would drive to pick him up after work and they still saluted, that they were saluting the car, regardless of who was driving- I always got a kick out of that; made me feel important! Mike BTW Dave- are all the ships in the mothball fleet that used to be anchored at Suisin Bay all gone, now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 15 hours ago, 72modeler said: BTW Dave- are all the ships in the mothball fleet that used to be anchored at Suisin Bay all gone, now? As far as I know, yes. I saw the Iowa there several times before it went down to San Pedro along with the Global Explorer, Howard Hughes spy ship. I would have loved to have taken a tour of the area, but it never came to be. We have a couple of rent-a-cops on Travis. Had more ten years ago but with the drawdown from Iraq and Afghanistan most of them are gone now. The decal stickers are also gone now. Every driver is checked for their ID cards now. There are still a number of bases that have security for their priority assets like when I was a Security cop, but nothing like that around here for a long time. We called the training area on Lackland the humping grounds. It was the first place I ever saw a B-57A. There were also some C-45s and other obsolescent fighters. I have a picture or two of it from my time there, but unfortunately they ended up being double exposures with totally different pictures. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Does anyone here have reference drawings or clear photographs of the underside, especially underwing, camo demarcation for when F-105Gs (assume similar to the Ds?) went in the all over camo scheme? Really struggling to find decent pictures to show how the camo was marked. Re the 'Thud' monicker, I wrote an article on Republic jets years ago and from that I remember that the nickname was originally derived from a TV series character. Losses from technical failures only reinforced the name (imaginary sound of hitting the deck) and this was sadly perpetuated by the combat losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, 71chally said: Really struggling to find decent pictures to show how the camo was marked. 71, I don't have the colors and markings T.O. for either of the Thud wraparound schemes, but Two Bobs did a 1/72 decal sheet on them that had the upper, lower, and side views in color, along with the FS numbers for the colors that might be pretty useful. It was sheet 72-079. Aero Masks also made a 1/72 set of masks for the Euro 1 scheme, it was AM72-F10504. Best I can do with from my reference library- hope this gets you started. Maybe @RidgeRunner has references on this subject, as he is a real Thudaholic! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 hours ago, 72modeler said: 71, I don't have the colors and markings T.O. for either of the Thud wraparound schemes, but Two Bobs did a 1/72 decal sheet on them that had the upper, lower, and side views in color, along with the FS numbers for the colors that might be pretty useful. It was sheet 72-079. Aero Masks also made a 1/72 set of masks for the Euro 1 scheme, it was AM72-F10504. Best I can do with from my reference library- hope this gets you started. Maybe @RidgeRunner has references on this subject, as he is a real Thudaholic! Mike Hi Mike and James, i will take a look this week. Nothing comes to mind yet but I am yet to get back in to gear after my holiday ;). Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistervampire319 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 10:30 PM, e8n2 said: Actually that would be the SP as in Security Police, or as the little snowflakes call themselves now, Security Forces, training area. I spent a few weeks there in October and November of 1974 getting trained as an Air Force Security Police Security specialist. MPs are Army and maybe Marines. Later, Dave Sorry, I was Army so MP's are what I am used to not SP (Space Police). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 hours ago, sinistervampire319 said: Sorry, I was Army so MP's are what I am used to not SP (Space Police). Santa Rosa huh? OK, come by the Travis Commissary and tell me that ;-)! I have pins of all the major commands I was in along with my final rank and qualification badges on my smock. Knowing how some of the supervisors are I'll probably be in the self bagging or express lanes. Paper or plastic sir? Any coupons today? You know the drill. Now if Lockheed would just have another Contract Field Team for another C-5 mod at Travis! Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistervampire319 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, e8n2 said: Santa Rosa huh? OK, come by the Travis Commissary and tell me that ;-)! I have pins of all the major commands I was in along with my final rank and qualification badges on my smock. Knowing how some of the supervisors are I'll probably be in the self bagging or express lanes. Paper or plastic sir? Any coupons today? You know the drill. Now if Lockheed would just have another Contract Field Team for another C-5 mod at Travis! Later, Dave I am not 100% disabled so I can't get on base. Better off you come over here. We can argue it out at the air museum here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 21 hours ago, sinistervampire319 said: I am not 100% disabled so I can't get on base. Better off you come over here. We can argue it out at the air museum here. The last time I worked for Lockheed a friend of mine from the first time rented a room from me. He was affectionately known as Army Bob because he obviously was previously in the Army. He always referred to the BX as the PX. He's living in Arizona now but I still get a lot of e-mails from him. I'll see what I can do to make it up to Santa Rosa some time on a day off or leave. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 5:25 PM, 72modeler said: I can heartily recommend getting Thunderchief- The Complete History of the Republic F-105, by Dennis R. Jenkins. The most complete and detailed Thud reference. I thought I knew a lot about the Thud, but this book really opened my eyes! (Thanks for the heads-up, @RidgeRunner!) Mike got mine yesterday! looks great and lots of detail, also of the development of related types!, never new! (XF-107... F-100B) etc... never saw the close relation to the RF-84 either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 9/1/2019 at 3:40 PM, 72modeler said: 71, I don't have the colors and markings T.O. for either of the Thud wraparound schemes, but Two Bobs did a 1/72 decal sheet on them that had the upper, lower, and side views in color, along with the FS numbers for the colors that might be pretty useful. It was sheet 72-079. Aero Masks also made a 1/72 set of masks for the Euro 1 scheme, it was AM72-F10504. Best I can do with from my reference library- hope this gets you started. Maybe @RidgeRunner has references on this subject, as he is a real Thudaholic! Mike I know it's been a long time but I just found that decal sheet if you still need the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 On 9/2/2019 at 12:40 AM, sinistervampire319 said: I am not 100% disabled so I can't get on base. Better off you come over here. We can argue it out at the air museum here. !. As long as you have a VA ID card that has the magic words service connected, you CAN get on base to shop at the commissary and exchange. 2. I'm not at the commissary, now totally retired. Leaves more time for model building! 3. Which museum? I think I heard that Santa Rosa has one, but I'm not sure where it is if they do have it. Let me know and we can argue grunts vs zoomies! Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 On 8/27/2019 at 9:04 AM, busnproplinerfan said: Maybe Thud was more the nickname? Had a dog once and named him Thud. I guess a big plane is an easy target for ground forces, also the pilots weren't the best trained for dogfighting or just real cocky. Kinda surprised it kept the F designation and not use an A. At the time the F-105 came into service, the A for Attack designation was not in use, and did not come back into use until 1962 when the Kennedy administration decided to have all the services use the same designation system. They had to do some real mental gymnastics on that one. For example, the Convair YF2Y-1 Sea Dart, which had never entered production and was already out of service received the designation of YF-7A. The Air Force Phantom II was in testing as the F-110A and became the F-4C. The Douglas F4D-1 Skyray became the F-6A to avoid confusion with the Phantom II which had just started service and the Skyray was soon to be on its way out. Please don't get me started on the other games that have been played with the designation system since the start of the current decade. Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 9 hours ago, e8n2 said: At the time the F-105 came into service, the A for Attack designation was not in use, and did not come back into use until 1962 when the Kennedy administration decided to have all the services use the same designation system. They had to do some real mental gymnastics on that one. For example, the Convair YF2Y-1 Sea Dart, which had never entered production and was already out of service received the designation of YF-7A. The Air Force Phantom II was in testing as the F-110A and became the F-4C. The Douglas F4D-1 Skyray became the F-6A to avoid confusion with the Phantom II which had just started service and the Skyray was soon to be on its way out. Please don't get me started on the other games that have been played with the designation system since the start of the current decade. Later, Dave I heard some bit about the designation changes but not in great detail, it would get confusing fast, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now