Spitfire Mk.V the green color..

[Tigerman60]

Hello Everyone,

 

Next q. What is a good match for the dark green for a Spitfire Mk.V in Dark Green, Ocean Grey and Light Gray. I tryed several greens, from Humbrol (163), Tamiya (XF81), Revell Aqua (68) and GSI (330). These are the brands I have. Some of the colors look to dark, to green, to yellow. So, please, help me with a good match. For me, The Tamiya's are "wrong" .

 

Han

Vroomshoop NL EU

[ApaininSpain]

Hi Han.

I normally use Humbrol No30 dark green enamel as a starting point..

Remember in "real " life any paint will react to its environment from day one, so it is subjective anyway unless you are building an aircraft with a factory fresh finish..

 

Hope that makes sense..

Ian.

[Graham Boak]

Humbrol 163 is very close to the standard.  So for a clean factory-fresh finish, go with that.  As the previous poster pointed out, you might prefer a somewhat more weathered appearance in which case either a browner colour will suit, or perhaps a greener one.  This will depend upon the original paint manufacturer's recipe.  Personally I find H30 too much of a brighter, slightly bluer, green but you may not.  However if you are attempting a more used colour then remember that the Ocean Grey is likely to appear considerably lighter, as will the blue on the upper wing roundels.

[Tigerman60]

Thank You all. I made some chips on a old model. H.30 to blue, I think I'll go for H.163 or Revell Aqua 68.  Some say Tam. 81 is good, but I think i have the wrong batch, to olive. To light.

 

A good picture of a original war Spit will do the thing...😂

 

Han

[stevehnz]

2 hours ago, Tigerman60 said:

to olive.

RAF Dark green was an Olive green colour. Humbrol 116 is a good substitute for colour instructions that give Humbrol 30 as a colour call, wrong, as you say too blue. Hu 163 is the satin equivalent of 116. Don't discount XF81 too quickly, it is generally well respected.

Steve.

[Mark Harmsworth]

I'm far from an expert on such things but I've been using XF-81 very happily for my recent RAF builds.

Mark

[PLC1966]

Put the following on Google

 

RAF GREEN BRITMODELER 

 

You will get 36600 results to wade through 👍

[malpaso]

I use XF-81 on my RAF builds, I find it looks right with either Tamiya XF-82 Ocean Grey or indeed with Mr Hobby Aqueous H72 Dark Earth for the Brown/Green liveries.

 

Tamiya is the only easily available acrylic model paint round my area, for some reason the shops only stock enamel versions of Humbrol or Revell.  Anything exotic like Mr Hobby is from a model show, requiring a certain degree of soothsaying on my part as to what I'm likely to build next!

[Tigerman60]

Ok, thanks for the kind help. I'll will try also 116 as a green.

 

Han

[Greenshirt]

I did a comparison of typical Dark Green modeling paints to the RAF Museum chips a few years ago. The results are still applicable, however I would like to find a good water based acrylic match that is a good modeling paint. 

 

Enamel: Humbrol 116 or 163 as your sheen tastes prefer. 

Solvent Acrylic: Tamiya XF81. 

Water Acrylic: still looking. 

 

For Ocean Grey I’ve found Humbrol 106 to be the only option. All the others are too blue, and appear significantly more blue when next to an accurate Dark Green. I’m actively testing newer acrylics readily available to me here in the US to find a great match. 

 

For Medium Sea Grey

Enamel: Humbrol 165

Solvent Acrylic: Tamiya XF83. 

Water Acrylic: while Humbrol 165 is accurate, I don’t like their acrylics. 

 

I freely admit I have not tried Xtracrylics, or WEM Colourcoats or Mr Hobby/Gunze or Mr Color as those are not easy for me to get. Vallejo likely has a color that is good but I haven’t found it yet. I am still looking in some of the broadly available lines and will update my blog when I have some success...and time. 

 

Tim

[lasermonkey]

@Greenshirt funny you should mention Humbrol 106 being a good match, as I've always found it not blue enough! When compared to the Colourcoats Ocean Grey (which is spectographically matched to the RAF Museum chips, IIRC) it's definitely the case. 

Cheers,

Mark.

 

[Greenshirt]

4 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

@Greenshirt funny you should mention Humbrol 106 being a good match, as I've always found it not blue enough! When compared to the Colourcoats Ocean Grey (which is spectographically matched to the RAF Museum chips, IIRC) it's definitely the case. 

Cheers,

Mark.

 

 

It’s slight and not too blue IMO. It appears spot on next to the RAFM chip to my eye which is why I like it. 

 

Tim

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

5 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

compared to the Colourcoats Ocean Grey (which is spectographically matched to the RAF Museum chips, IIRC)

 

 

It is. Since we happened across another copy in a used book stall at an airshow for a very low price we now own two copies of that book and those chips. I was interested to see if there was any appreciable difference in the chips between the two editions my two copies now span. There isn't much of a difference to speak of.

[Rolls-Royce]

Jamie, when you do your spectrographic readings, are you brushing or spraying your paint's test patches? On bare or primed plastic?  I've done a little of that, with the paints under test sprayed onto unprimed white styrene, but am considering using a gray (grey for you folks in Old Blighty) primer for my next testing.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Rolls-Royce

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

3 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said:

Jamie, when you do your spectrographic readings, are you brushing or spraying your paint's test patches? On bare or primed plastic?  I've done a little of that, with the paints under test sprayed onto unprimed white styrene, but am considering using a gray (grey for you folks in Old Blighty) primer for my next testing.

 

For paint matching purposes - i.e. the iterative measuring of the mixed paint patch before freezing the formula - a calibrated stick is used. It has ribs down its length. The stick is dipped in the bulk batch can and is wiped once over a glossy test card which is half black, half white which will leave a 100 micron paint film. This is allowed to dry and both the white and black based sections can be measured and compared for opacity. The computer gets roughly within the ballpark, but it does require extra "shots" of pigment added to the batch to get it as close as can be achieved. That's never Delta E 2000 = 0, but we can get at least within 2 or less which is widely considered "a close match" in industry.

 

As to what we match against - well we just measure what we can get!

[Smithy]

Late to the party but for what it's worth I use:

 

Dark Green - Humbrol 163

Dark Earth - Humbrol 29

Ocean Grey - Humbrol 106

Medium Sea Grey - Humbrol 64

 

I've used these since returning to the hobby in 2001. Are they perfect? Well how long is a piece of string?

 

I will say that they look right and the contrasts between the colours look correct which for me is actually one of the most important factors.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Smithy
Typo

[Graham Boak]

The main thing I would add to that is that H64 is a slightly brownish grey with no trace of blue, whereas MSG has a distinct bluish appearance.  This of course disappears in period b&w photos which is perhaps misleading, although the blue pigments do seem to fade most.  I used to use H64 for a wide range of colours but now think it a poor match for just about anything.

 

I haven't used H106, or at least not for a number of years so it may have changed anyway.  I recall being delighted with the Xtracolour OG when it appeared, but do have a number of late Merlin Spitfires well advanced and awaiting the Compucolour paints.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Smithy]

1 minute ago, Graham Boak said:

The only thing I would add to that is that H64 is a slightly brownish grey with no trace of blue, whereas MSG has a distinct bluish appearance.  This of course disappears in period b&w photos which is perhaps misleading.

 

Doesn't worry be in the slightest as it's an underside colour and which I weather with dirt and grime anyway. High quality photographs and film of examples in medium sea grey such as Finn Bergan's remarkable footage and photos of Spitfire IXs from November 1943 at North Weald, tend to show the "blue" quality of MSG is virtually unnoticeable on operational airframes eg BS401, BS398, BS395, no doubt from use.

 

TBH I think some can get a little pedantic about trying to match a colour exactly to a wartime machine, when there were factors which provided a broader "window" for what a colour looked like, rather than every single example of a colour looked exactly like this on every single airframe.

[Rolls-Royce]

8 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

For paint matching purposes - i.e. the iterative measuring of the mixed paint patch before freezing the formula - a calibrated stick is used. It has ribs down its length. The stick is dipped in the bulk batch can and is wiped once over a glossy test card which is half black, half white which will leave a 100 micron paint film. This is allowed to dry and both the white and black based sections can be measured and compared for opacity. The computer gets roughly within the ballpark, but it does require extra "shots" of pigment added to the batch to get it as close as can be achieved. That's never Delta E 2000 = 0, but we can get at least within 2 or less which is widely considered "a close match" in industry.

 

As to what we match against - well we just measure what we can get!

Excellent, thank you. I was doing mine out of sheer curiosity as to which manufacturer's take on Mitsubishi's Zero "amber grey" that I had on hand was closest to published data from Nicholas Millman. My tests were not scientific, and certainly not to your level, but I found them interesting.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Rolls-Royce