CSM Lanchester A/C, Persia 1916

[Shermaniac]

Absolutely couldn't resist this one and picked up a couple of the CSM Figures to act as crew.

A brilliant kit from Copper State Models. So much so, I have 2 more.

Completed 21st April 2019

 

 

 

 

 

[Kingsman]

Another cracking Lanchester.  So good, and hard on the heels of another recently, that I think I should abandon my build for a while!  The CSM figures are rather good, aren't they.  Pity I have a kindergarten level of figure painting skills..................

 

Point to note, though.  RNAS ACEF and their Lanchesters were never in Persia, despite what the box says.  Closest they got was Armenia vs Turkish forces.  Some RNAS personnel later served with Dunsterforce and got up to Baku, then in Persia.  But they didn't take any RNAS vehicles with them, and in any event the remaining RNAS Lanchesters were all left behind in Russia when ACEF evacuated - half of them having already been sold to Russia previously.  In Russia they carried the Imperial Russian roundel if they carried one at all: red outer, blue middle, white centre. The RAF roundel (and the RNAS title, although used) would have been meaningless to local forces. 

 

Sorry to be critical of a lovely model, but I looked into the Persia position as I fancied doing a Lanchester with Dunsterforce alongside a Ford T.  But Persia and Lanchesters definitely = no.

[Duckwizard]

So Copper State Models did a bad investigation? Very interesting to know. Because my Lanchester is also based in Persia (maybe you remember my thread with the missing vulture. )

[Kingsman]

I think it is perhaps a question of geographical confusion with a little unit confusion.  And it depends where you draw the boundaries of "Persia".  In an ancient cultural sense, Armenia can apparently be considered to be "Persian" - but then apparently so can Afghanistan.  However, in the political borders of the WW1 period, no Lanchesters were ever in Persia.  The only British forces to make it to the Russia-Persia border area were Dunsterforce, sent from Iraq to secure the Baku oilfields from the Turks: they didn't get that far  because the Turkish threat to the Caucasus went away after their defeat at the battle at Megiddo.  It seems that Dunsterforce had only 3 armoured cars, all Rolls-Royces already in Iraq.

 

All of the Lanchesters are accounted for.  After Western Front service withg RNAS and Belgian forces, half were sold to Russia.  The other half remained in RNAS service and were allocated to the Royal Naval Air Service Armoured Car Expeditionary Force sent to support Russia.  The force commander, Cdr Locker-Lampson, wanted Rolls-Royces but these were in short supply and he had to make do with the Lanchesters - although he managed to secure one R-R as his personal vehicle.  RNAS ACEF fought over a wide area but the furthest SW they got was a period in Armenia against the Turks.  Armenia bordered Persia.  When the ACEF left Russia to return to the UK after the 1917 Revolution, they left all their vehicles behind.  By that time they were fighting against Bulgarian forces in today's Romania.

 

Some former RNAS personnel from ACEF were later sent to join Dunsterforce because of their experience in operating armoured car expeditions, but I believe they were transferred to the Army into the Machine Gun Corps Motor Branch.  There is a nagging question I am still trying to resolve as to whether any ACEF vehicles were actually returned to the UK and whether any were subsequently sent to the Middle East.  To date I have found nothing to confirm this: the Rolls-Royce was very much the preferred armoured car in that theatre. But even if they did go they would have gone as Army MGC, not RNAS.

 

So I see how CSM may have concluded that some RNAS Lanchesters were in Persia.  But they were not.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Das Abteilung
Correction

[Duckwizard]

My friend, you are a real WWI encyclopedia. Thanks a lot for this detailed info.

So I call my base "Little Armenia" now and no longer "Little Persia".

Edited October 5, 2019 by Duckwizard

[Kingsman]

On 10/5/2019 at 9:51 PM, Duckwizard said:

My friend, you are a real WWI encyclopedia

Not really.  I just did a bit of digging around on this particular subject because I really wanted to do a "Persian" Lanchester.  And it all pointed to the conclusion above.

 

Since that post I have contacted the MMGS Archive to see if they know anything about ex ACEF vehicles being returned to the UK and absorbed by MMGS.  Their reply was that, based on published sources and personal recollections etc they hold from ex-ACEF personnel, they believe that the ACEF vehicles were indeed all left behind.

 

Somewhat coincidentally, the ACEF "depot" was at Kursk. It is likely that this is where the cars were left, having been driven up from Romania.  There are some period photos of ACEF in Russia, and at least some of their cars carried the Russian cockade (roundel) recognition symbol as CSM show for their Russian scheme.  It is entirely unknown as far as I can tell whether the ACEF cars were grey or khaki.

[Faraway]

On 22/08/2019 at 20:03, Shermaniac said:

Absolutely couldn't resist this one and picked up a couple of the CSM Figures to act as crew.

A brilliant kit from Copper State Models. So much so, I have 2 more.

Completed 21st April 2019

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent model. What colour did you use for the body ?