Frog F158 Macchi C 202 Folgore ****Finished****

[PeterB]

For the moment this is just a placeholder for a build I hope to have time to do.

 

The C.202 was a development of the classic pre war Macchi C.200, which like all Italian fighters was highly manoeuvrable, but had only 2x12.7mm MG as armament and suffered from the usual problem of a low powered radial engine (870HP) – like the French the Italian aero engine industry was a bit slow developing more powerful inline engines. I suppose the same could be said of the US, but they compensated by developing big powerful radials instead.. By adding a licence built German Daimler Benz DB601 inline engine (1175HP), this was transformed into the C.202, which retained most of the manoeuvrability, but was somewhat faster. Initially it too was underarmed retaining the 2 fuselage mounted 12.7mm MG, though later versions added a pair of wing mounted 7.7mm guns in the wings. A small number had these replaced with 20mm cannon. The Folgore entered service in late 1941.

 

Fiat and Reggiane later went down the same route of fitting various versions of the DB engine to produce potentially excellent fighters, but like Macchi's follow up C.205V Veltro and C205N Orione they were either only just entering service when Italy surrendered or about to do so, so the rather good looking C.202 was the only one to be produced in any numbers (Green says Macchi produced 392 and other manufacturers such as Breda made some as well) and it has a good claim to be the best operational Italian fighter of WWII. It was more than a match for the Hurricane and P40 and could give the Spitfire V a hard time as well, in spite of its poor hitting power.

 

I first built this kit back in the late 1960's and I think it would have been the original boxed release like the one John is building. I have more recently acquired what Cocardes say is the first re-release in the “black” bag, and this differs in having a full set of decals for 2 versions complete with unit markings – the original just had generic Italian national markings. John has painted his in a variation of the standard Italian brown blotches over an olive green background as mostly used in mainland Italy, whereas I will be going for the “desert” version of sandy brown with green mottle, or in this case the so called “smoke ring”pattern which I have always wanted to try. Whether it will work or not remains to be seen and I might end up with plain blotches depending on how long it takes.

 

 

Looking at the "roundels" printed on the back of the card to denote nationality of the text, I think perhaps they used the same printer who produced some of their early decals!

 

 

I already have 2 builds on the go with another one scheduled, not to mention 2 in a couple of other parallel GB, so whether this gets build depends on nothing going wrong.

Edited August 24, 2019 by PeterB

[John]

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

That's the one I had all those years ago that was the inspiration for my build here. 

Cool!

John 

[Rabbit Leader]

7 hours ago, PeterB said:

... so whether this gets build depends on nothing going wrong.

Don’t jinx yourself before you even open the bag Pete! I do know what you’re talking about as one’s potential build plans always seem to take on different paths. As they saying goes - nothing ventured is nothing gained, so best get into it as these model kits have a nasty habit of not building themselves! 

 

Cheers and good luck.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Hi Dave,

 

Guess it goes back to my banking days - I won't commit to anything until I am pretty certain I can do it. I remember interviewing a couple who wanted to borrow some money to buy a pub. I gave them a list of things that would need to be done before I could make a decision, but told them that if these conditions were met they should get the loan. I heard nothing from them for 2 months, and then they came and told me they had signed the contract and could they now have the money - they had not done any of things I had told them to so I said no! Don't worry - I have every intention of starting the kit in the next couple of days, and have just been working out how to mix the appropriate bright green colour for the cockpit interior and checking the colour of the wheel bays etc. All I have to decide now is the markings, which may not be 100% accurate but I am not too bothered about that. For the record the Hornet is actually going to be OOB - I know I have said that before and then started adding detail, but this time I mean it. I will not be bothering with the Do17Z though as I need a break - I think 7 is my limit this time  as the Shackleton has been rather time consuming.

 

Thanks for your encouragement,

 

Pete

[stevehnz]

Helll Peter, There's me doing it hard with one piddly little Vampire & you're aiming for 7 including a Shackleton. 😮 Admiration doesn't begin to cover what I feel about your efforts, well done mate.

Steve.

[PeterB]

Well here we go again. If I had any sense I would build this OOB, but I could not resist improving the cockpit. I have added a rear bulkhead, combined floor/wheel bay roof, control column and will add an IP.

 

 

I looked up the paint mix for “Italian Bright Interior Green” in the Humbrol Colour System Binder and mixed it up. I must admit I was expecting a vivid green like the one John has used, but it has turned out about the same as RAF Cockpit grey/green – perhaps I mixed it wrong, though I did notice a similar colour in the wheel bays of a preserved example. On the subject of Italian aircraft paints, there seem to have been a heck of a lot of them. As far as I can see, the main ones are the “Mimetico” (camouflage) groups :-

 

Giallo Mimetico (yellows) of which there are at least 4 ranging from bright yellow to a sandy colour.

Marrone Mimetico (browns) again 4 including red/brown

Verde Mimetico (greens) at least 2 probably more.

Grigio Mimetico (greys) again at least 2.

 

On top of that there were various other colours such as Verde Bottiglia (bottle green), Nocciola Chiaro (light chestnut) at least 2, Verde Oliva Scuro (dark olive green) again at least 2, and Grigio Azzurro Scuro +Grigio Azzurro Chiaro (dark and light sky grey similar to the French Gris Bleu Fonce and Gris Bleu Clair).

 

This is by no means an exhaustive list and I cannot guarantee the accuracy. I have many of them bought when they were still White Ensign Colourcoats,

 

This plane will have Nocciola Chiaro uppers and Grigio Azzurro Chiaro unders with a mottle of Verde Oliva Scuro.

 

I doubt I will get much modelling done on Saturday as we are helping our son, who is involved in a charity duck race – you know the sort of thing – people are coerced and cajoled into “buying” a small plastic duck, and then a whole load of them are dumped in the local river to flow downstream. First one to reach Australia or somewhere wins a prize. I don't suppose they will go more than half a mile in this case, but a few might just escape and get out into Cardiff Bay!

 

More as and when.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by PeterB

[mike romeo]

Nice upgrades, Peter!

 

Regards

 

Martin

[Johnson]

Another plane I know next to nothing about, a situation vastly improved by your intro Pete!

 

Good luck with the build, another I'll follow with interest. (if I don't get my kits finished, it's because I've spent far too long on the web following all the others!)

 

Cheers,

[JOCKNEY]

Looks great Pete.

This is another one of those classic Italian fighters that look really fast even when stationary 

Good luck with the build

cheers Pat

[PeterB]

Not got much done today because of the Duck race - it went well but some did escape and were last seen heading for Cardiff Bay - more plastic polution unfortunately.

 

Whilst waiting for the paint on the IP to dry I came across this.

 

 

 

The colours are not  quite right but this is just a sample of the various mottle/patches the Reggia Aeronautica used. I will either do the sort of "X" type labelled "S", or the smoke ring - "T". As I have not used these particular colourcoats paints before I am going to do a test run on my old Blenheim that I use for experimenting. References mention both the scheme mentioned in my earlier post (examples "S" &"T"), and the scheme involving Giallo Mimetico 4 and one of the Grigio Mimeticos -2 I think, which is probably the colour in example "O". John has probably done the one shown as "N" Apparently the scheme of mottling and the colours depended to some extent on which company made the plane, with Breda doing the "X" type. Of course field repainting would make that less certain.

 

My knowledge of Italian aircraft is pretty limited, and the only one(s) I have ever seen are the Fiat CR42 biplane (and perhaps a G50?) in the RAF Museum. The Reggia Aeronautica was still a largely Biplane force at the start of the war, with a lot of CR42, and even a few of the earlier CR32, but the first 2 monoplanes had recently entered service I gather - Fiat G50 "Freccia" and Macchi C200 "Saetta". There was also the Reggianne 2000 "Ariete" which some sources say was derived from the Seversky P35 - it certainly has a similar shape and Seversky apparently did do a number of clandestine deals which upset the USAF. Whatever the case, the Italians did not like it and it went for export to Sweden I think. However it was pressed into service in limited numbers I believe after the start of the war. As I mentioned earlier, Fiat, Macchi and Reggiane all switched to inline Daimler Benz type engines later in the war.

 

I thought one or two of you might find that interesting. Sorry for boring the pants off the rest of you who probably know this already!

 

Cheers

Edited August 24, 2019 by PeterB

[PeterB]

I have glued the fuselage together and likewise the wings and tail planes. These have now been fitted and I will do a bit of filling and tidying up shortly. I will also finish boxing in the wheel wells with thin plasticard and paint them after priming. The undercarriage is rather flimsy so I may well leave it off for the moment – unlike the He162 this will not cause problems with ballast!

 

 

I tried out my proposed paints last night and ran into a slight problem – when I bought most of the old White Ensign Colourcoats Italian range, I either did not buy Grigio Azzurro Chiaro (GAC for short) or I have misplaced it. Also it seems there were at least 2 versions of both the grey and the Nociola Chiaro chestnut brown, Colourcoats do not say which version of the brown they have made and the various sources do not specify which version was used so I will go with what is in the tin – it looks ok. As to the grey, the lighter version GAC2 is shown as FS36307 which corresponds to the discontinued Humbrol 141 Light Sea Grey, but I have that in Mr Color. The darker version GAC1 is FS36231which is Humbrol 140 aka Dark Gull Grey and I have that as well. The info says GAC2, the light version so I will give that a try – I can always switch to the darker version should I think it is better. I see the Sovereign Colourcoats GAC is labelled GAC-2 so it is a pity I don't have it but these things happen.

 

So far so good. The wings were a bit of a tussle but that is mostly my fault - the plastic card I fitted gets in the way of the wing tabs so a bit of surgery was required. Still making silly mistakes even after 60 years modelling!

 

FYI I got the greys the wrong way round - the strain of building 3 at once must be getting to me. I have corrected it now - GAC1 is the darker one.

Edited August 26, 2019 by PeterB

[Rob S]

18 hours ago, PeterB said:

There was also the Reggianne 2000 "Ariete" which some sources say was derived from the Seversky P35 - it certainly has a similar shape and Seversky apparently did do a number of clandestine deals which upset the USAF. Whatever the case, the Italians did not like it and it went for export to Sweden I think.

 

Yes and one is in the Swedish Airforce Museum : 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=swedish+airforce+museum+re2000&rlz=1C1AOHY_en-GBAU708AU708&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc7--tgp7kAhVXWysKHSNqBNIQ_AUIEigC&biw=1270&bih=687#imgrc=_  

 

and Hungary was a customer too.  (UK may have been too according to some sources!)  

 

[PeterB]

Spot the (not) deliberate mistake!. The Reggianne 2000 was of course the Falco. The Ariete was the modified 2002 ground attack version which almost entered service before the Italian surrender.

[bigbadbadge]

Good work so far Pete.

Looking good.

All the best

Chris

[PeterB]

Progress! I primed it in grey, painted on two coats of the underside grey, and did the top in "Nocciola Chiarro" - according to a new source I have found it should be NC-4 but I have no idea which version Colourcoats have produced. The wing to fuselage joints are a bit obvious in spite of filling and sanding but they are going to have to do - the mottling will hopefully break them up a bit. Likewise the ailerons, but then it has Frog "Special Features" so all the control surfaces were poseable.

 

 

Once that is dry I will do the wrap round on the undersurfaces which was a bit unusual. According to Cocardes, the wheeltrack is somewhat narrow, and the prop blades are spindly. Research also shows thet spinner to be the wrong shape as it needs a backplate adding. I might do that, depending in how enthusiastic I feel, or I might see if the one from a spare Macchi C205 Veltro fits.

[PeterB]

Looking at the various pictures and profiles I have, including preserved aircraft, it seems there were at least 3 different underside painting schemes. All had wrap rounds on the leading edges, and the first scheme was what I would call conventional in that the light grey ran all the way under the fuselage from nose to tail, flaring up to meet the undesides of the horizontal tail. The second was the same at the front, but behind the wing it tapered to a point about half way to the tail, and the third was this_

 

 

I went with this because it was unusual and also because it avoided the need to merge the two colours to make a soft edge. I don't know how accurate it is but I like it. Now I can start the mottling.

[PeterB]

This is my first attempt at the smoke ring type mottle. Far from perfect so it will need quite a bit of adjustment but I will stick with this scheme.

 

 

 

I mentioned early the problem with the Frog spinner. Well here it is (unpainted) together with the one from the Italeri MC205V Veltro.

 

 

 

Both are about the same length and have the flattened tip with the hole in it presumably for cooling, but there the similarity ends. In real life the props were nearer the front and there was a backing plate, though I think the Folgore had a slightly thinner one than the Veltro. Perhaps because of putting the prop right at the back, Frog have tapered it rather more than Italeri as well. Fixing it would be possible but rather fiddly so I will "borrow" the Veltro one, and see what I can find to replace it later.

Some Folgores had the spinner in the camo chestnut colour, whilst others had only the rear in it as in the pic. The prop blades are rather spindly too so again I will use the Italeri ones - I got the Veltro cheap for spares anyway, when I was thinking of refurbing my old Frog Folgore, but then I picked up a replacement kit.

 

It will look better once the decs are on, which should not be too long.

[Johnson]

26 minutes ago, PeterB said:

my first attempt at the smoke ring type mottle

Looks pretty good from the photo Pete.

 

The Italians did go in for some amazing camo patterns, this must be one of the most elaborate.

 

Cheers,

[PeterB]

Hi Charlie.

 

Yes there were some interesting schemes. Revell reissued their Macchi C200 Saetta in a green base with sand and reddish brown blotch camo over light grey unders. I was thinking of doing something similar with my SM79 if I ever re-build it. Unfortunately the wings have anhedral due to my sloppy building 40 years ago, and for once they won't come unglued so I may have to saw half way through and put a wedge in - that or bite the bullet and buy one as the Airfix kit is none too accurate shape wise I believe. Just noticed Airfix are reissuing it this year. Anybody know if the Italeri one is any good?

 

Cheers

 

Pete!

Edited August 29, 2019 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Earlier on I mentioned that the C202 was a development of the earlier radial engined C200, so I thought this might be of interest.

 

 

This is my original Revell Saetta dating back to 1967 and well "smoked" from my pipe fumes. Revell modelled one in Greece in 1942 in plain green uppers and grey unders with no paint refs, but I must have seen pics of one with a mottle, probably in a useful little booklet that came with one of my comics, so this is my youthful attempt, which actually is quite close. At the start of the war I believe that the overall green finish was standard for planes used in and around Italy itself, though mottles of Giallo Mimetico (yellow-sand) and sometimes also Marrone Mimetico (red brown) were introduced later. For desert climes the colours were effectively reversed. As you can just about see, the wings, tail and fuselage aft of the cockpit are identical, the only real difference being the engine and therefore nose shape together with the associated radiator under the cockpit. Revell got the wheeltrack about right, unlike Frog. It's a nice little kit and I have a new one of these together with the Airfix Fiat G50 to make, probably after I finish this build as I have dug out my Italian paints. I need a few simple builds to "refresh my palate" as it were once I get the Shackleton done.

[PeterB]

Hi,

I have cleaned up the mottle and painted the undercarriage.

 

 

I will add the u/c later and do a bit of touching up and then it will be ready for the decals. Should not take long after that.

Edited August 31, 2019 by PeterB

[Johnson]

Looks great Pete. I wish I could get kits done as quick, but I always get carried away.

 

I thought your Revell Saetta looked wonderful, even with it's patina of 52 years of smoke! That paint job must have taken a while!

 

They will make a fine pair on the shelf.

 

Cheers,

[PeterB]

10 hours ago, Johnson said:

Looks great Pete. I wish I could get kits done as quick, but I always get carried away.

 

I thought your Revell Saetta looked wonderful, even with it's patina of 52 years of smoke! That paint job must have taken a while!

 

They will make a fine pair on the shelf.

 

Cheers,

Actually Charlie, allowing for the drying time of Humbrol enamel, I doubt it took very long as I might have used a technique I have not even thought of since, let alone tried. Initially I assumed that I had painted a base coat of green and applied individual brown splodges, which would have been slow, but looking at it I believe I painted it brown, and then used a brush to paint squiggly green lines in such a way that it left closely spaced smallish patches of brown showing. Actually quite quick and works well for a closely spaced mottle, but not so well for wider spacing. Of course my hands, eyes and patience were a lot better when I was in my teens. I might try that again with my new Saetta as the mottling used on them was quite closely spaced. The painting instructions for the scheme I am considering doing have the added complication of making the brown patches a bit bigger and then painting a red/brown colour partially over the yellow/brown to get a composite mottle as it were, rather than having both browns seperate if you follow me - see design "M" in my earlier post. The Italians did have some interesting camo schemes.

 

Pete

Edited August 31, 2019 by PeterB

[PeterB]

I fitted the u/c last night and I have to say it was not one of Frog's better ideas. You glue the legs to the doors trapping the wheels, and then you glue the doors to the end of the well well and add the bracing strut. Normally the legs are longer than the doors and go into a socket of some sort, but Frog made the legs shorter than the doors so they are left hanging in space. Fortunately I managed to insert short lengths of rod but it was fiddly.

 

 

I will do a little touching up then start on the decs, so this may be a good time to talk about how I made my choice of markings, There were apparently(according to the Mushroom book) 1150 Folgores built before the armistice by a combination of Macchi, Breda and SAI-Ambrosia, in a total of 13 “Serie” or variants if you prefer. These differed in details such as the size of the radiator, various cooling vents, the fairings in front and behind the tail wheel, and the armament. Frog have moulded what seems to be an early version and judging by the presence of both the tailwheel fairings and the radio mast, together with the absence of wing guns I assume it is meant to be a Serie III with the dust filter added. perhaps in the field as it did not become a factory fit it seems until late Serie III, which dispensed with the rear tailwheel fairing. Filters were fitted as and when required, and the fairings were often removed so it can be difficult to be certain. Now if the mould makers had been as accurate as the artist who produced the artwork on the header card, showing the correct spinner and various vents, it would have been far easier.

 

I was going to use the kit decs but they are rather faded, so I decided to use some from a sheet I bought for the C200 Saetta. Digging around in my references I found a pic of a Serie III used in North Africa in mid 42 by the 4th Stormo which fits with the decs I have, but the pic is rather dark and I cannot make out the mottle type used. I think it is probably not the smoke ring variety but I never said it was going to be totally accurate! I will explain a bit more once the decs are on in a couple of days.

Edited September 1, 2019 by PeterB

[PeterB]

I have started putting the decs on but have run into problems getting the white band around the rear fuselage right - I think Frog made the hump behind the canopy a bit short and I put the band in the wrong place - could just be me showing my age! Anyway I will repaint it but the camo colours are enamel and a bit slow drying. More before too long. The canopy is painted and on and so that just leaves the prop, pitot tube and aerial to fit once the rest of the decs are on and it will be ready for a final spray. Should be done by the weekend.

Edited September 2, 2019 by PeterB