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jaw

Hunter T7/T8M

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I have the 1/48 Heritage conversion kits for the Hunter T7 and T8M lurking in my stash. I know that these were designed for the Academy kit, but wonder if any brave soul has tried to use them on the Airfix Hunter kit? If so, I would love to hear how they proceeded.

 

Thanks,

 

John

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I have the T8M set and wondered the same thing.  I haven’t seen the Airfix Hunter in the flesh yet, but I think I read somewhere that work is being done on a T7 conversion for the Airfix kit.  If that’s the case, it suggests that they’re not compatible.

 

On the other hand, most of the flaws in the Academy kit (notably the cockpit and tail pipe) are irrelevant because the T8M replaces them - so why pay more for the modern tool?

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Thanks EX-FAAWAFU,

 

I know that Alistair of Aerocraft Models is doing T7 and T8 conversion sets for the Airfix Hunter which with luck should be available fairly soon. Ali has put info about progress on BM recently which you might want to look at. But I thought it worthwhile to ask the question.

 

John

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I've got the Heritage 1/48 T.7 conversion set as well in my stash, it's just that there's no Airfix Hunter kit in the country as of yet.

Anyway, I'd try grafting the Heritage set onto the new Airfix kit by following how it is done on the Academy kit. Both kits can't be that different one from another; the only big difference is the way the wings are attached on the Airfix kit, but the Heritage bits could be adjusted at the joint where the upper intakes meet the sides of the fuselage. 

 

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I'd really like to have the Airfix kit to try to use my last Heritage set on it.

Yeh, me would.

Cheers,

 

Unc

 

Edit: Would it ever be possible to build any two-seat Hunter with the F.6 type of exhaust?

Edited by Uncle Uncool

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Thanks for that Unc,

 

Yes I have it in mind to do what you say - but I also have an Academy kit so may use that instead. I believe that all the major errors with the Academy kit are at the front end so the conversion would get over that problem. You ask about 2 seat Hunters and the F6 exhaust. Some of the non RAF 2 seaters had the bigger Avon engine as used on the F6 but most of those had the brake parachute housing as well as on the FGA9. Countries that had these machines were India, Chile as well as some Middle East air forces.

 

Cheers,

 

John

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14 minutes ago, jaw said:

I believe that all the major errors with the Academy kit are at the front end so the conversion would get over that problem.

John! :worthy: How's it going?

If only I had the Airfix hunter kit, I'd use it as a guide to fix all the other issues aft the front end in the Academy kits as well, i.e., those nice arrow-like shaped tip ends of the elevators and tail, the lenght of the bullet in the tail and the correct placement of the elevators with regard to the tail. The F.6 exhaust is all wrong on the Academy kits. Also, the way the whole wing angles down when viewed from either the front or rear.

 

21 minutes ago, jaw said:

You ask about 2 seat Hunters and the F6 exhaust. Some of the non RAF 2 seaters had the bigger Avon engine as used on the F6 but most of those had the brake parachute housing as well as on the FGA9. Countries that had these machines were India, Chile as well as some Middle East air forces.

Awesome, thanks! I've been intending to build a Chilean T.72 for which I still haven't found the required decals.

Cheers my mate!

 

Unc2

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On 22/08/2019 at 13:00, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 If that’s the case, it suggests that they’re not compatible.

 

The heritage set is OOP, and their quality could be variable,  and so it makes sense for an AM producer to go back to the drawing board.

I suspect that the Heritage set could be made to fit 'with some modelling skill'  

 

the biggest issue would be if the fuselage diameter and cross section was grossly different,  and some calipers and a contour comb should help determine how out or not the Academy vs Airfix are.

 

Regarding the Academy kit, I'm going to quote the best list of flaws I know of, note that @StephenMG  own chunks of a Hunter and did the plans in the SAM Datafile

The short, unless you are not bothered, or have plenty of time but not much cash, and Academy kits stashed, get the Airfix.

 the Airfix kit is basically accurate, the Academy kit is riddled with errors.(see below)

 

1 hour ago, Uncle Uncool said:

If only I had the Airfix hunter kit, I'd use it as a guide to fix all the other issues aft the front end in the Academy kits as well, i.e., those nice arrow-like shaped tip ends of the elevators and tail, the lenght of the bullet in the tail and the correct placement of the elevators with regard to the tail. The F.6 exhaust is all wrong on the Academy kits. Also, the way the whole wing angles down when viewed from either the front or rear.

 

 

On 22/08/2019 at 13:00, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

On the other hand, most of the flaws in the Academy kit (notably the cockpit and tail pipe) are irrelevant because the T8M replaces them - so why pay more for the modern tool?

 

1 hour ago, jaw said:

I believe that all the major errors with the Academy kit are at the front end so the conversion would get over that problem.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234909441-italeri-academy-hunter/

Quote

Hi all,

With the reappearance of the Academy 1/48th Hunter under the Italeri name I thought I dig out one of my stashed Academy kits and examine and list the accurate/inaccurate points of it. I plan to build a couple of these models in the near future so wanted to know exactly what would be required to make it a more accurate model.

Based on my research and the scale drawings I produced for Paul Bradley's SAM Modeller's Datafile I've noted the following issues. I should stress that this is simply a listing of points, minor or otherwise, that I noted as being significantly 'out' when comparing the kit parts to the real aircraft. Many will consider a lot of these points inconsequential and I think it's best left up to individual modellers to decide which, if any, they want to fix in their own models, but for what it's worth this is what I think is wrong with the kit.

 

Tailplane - it's been said that the kit has the tailplanes are mounted 2 to 3mm too far aft and that they should be moved forward. On the face of it this looks like sound advice as the trailing edge of the tailplanes is about 2mm further aft that the trailing edge of the fin at their junction. However that oversimplifies the problem and simply moving the entire tailplane forward 2mm introduces other issues. The problem with the Academy kit is that they have the tailplane too broad in chord at its inboard end by about 2mm. On the real aircraft, if the acorn fairing were to be removed, the trailing edges of the fin and tailplanes would meet at one point. Also the hinge lines of the elevators and rudder would, if extended, also meet at another point. In this latter respect the Academy kit has it correct - the hinge lines would meet which indicates that the elevators are too broad at their inboard end and the fixed part of the tailplane is also too broad. I believe the whole thing is still mounted a tiny bit too far aft so the solution is to remove some of the taper on the elevator so that the inboard end is 1mm less, remove some of the leading edge at its inboard end (another 1mm), then move the whole thing forward by about 0.5mm max. The tips of the tailplane are also the wrong shape, being too rounded.

 

Ailerons and leading edge extensions - ailerons are 2mm too short making the 'dog-tooth' appear much too far inboard. In reality the dog-tooth IS too far inboard, but only by 1mm, the rest of the problem is caused by the too short ailerons. The dog-tooth should be slightly outboard of the aileron line. The leading edge extension is also not 'drooped' enough and simply sticks striaght out in front of the wing.

Wingtips - wrong shape, being too 'squared'. The widest point of the wings should be their aft-most corner. The Academy kit has the widest point some way along the wing tip and the trailing corner curves back inboard slightly. This has the effect of taking the pitot head 5mm too far outboard.

 

Wing, tailplane & rudder tips - all are too pointed. The Hunter has all tips 'blunted' slightly by having the trailing edges curve back in slightly near to the tips.

 

Intakes - not wide enough due to their outer corner being too rounded. Should be opened out to almost a point.

 

Airbrake - about the right size (although slightly thick at the sides), but 5mm too far aft.

 

Fuselage - I measured the 3 sections of the fuselage between the end frames and the transport joints and found that the forward fuselage is 1mm too short, the rear fusellage 1mm too long (so they cancel each other out!) and the centre fuselage 3mm too short. This 3mm shortfall is made up by the tailpiece being 3mm too long which means that, overall, the fuselage is about the right length! The tail piece of the Academy FGA.9 is famously terrible though and is nowhere near the right shape - Academy simply extended the upper edge to form a 'beak' rather than including the bulge that accomodates the braking 'chute. Even taking the above into account, the overall fuselage shape isn't actually too bad, although it is a little too large in diameter at the extreme forward end - see nosepiece. The fairing behind the canopy is a bit too 'bulky' because Academy don't seem to have realised that the Hunter's hood slid open and so needed to go past it!

'Acorn' fairing between fin and tailpanes is too long by about 3mm.

 

Nosepiece - too large at its rear edge by about 1mm (vertically) making the forward nose look a little bulbous. It's also a bit blunt.

Windscreen - the base of the windscreen is straight across but should be curved slightly down the side of the fuse. As a result the lower edges of the side screens are angled downwards more than it should be.

 

Hood - problems with the shape as its highest pont should be closer to the windscreen hoop. Has frame at the rear which the real Hunter hood does not. It's the inflatable rubber seal visible through the hood which gives the impression of a frame at the rear end.

 

Wheels - (mains) too small in diameter, (nose) not too bad and leg length is accurate.

 

Cockpit - famously way too shallow, seat way too small.

 

Trim tab - should only appear on port aileron.

 

Hood jettison pull window, de-icer filler panel and destructor access panel should only appear on port side.

No hood rails at all.

 

Boundary layer splitter plates too chunky, too far from fuselage sides and too straight (should be curved to follow the fuselage sides).

Several panel lines fictitious or in the wrong place.

 

There! So that's my list of main gripes. I appreciate many will say it's very picky but it's just meant to be a list, nothing more. Some of these I'll fix on my own models, some I won't. The ones that stand out to me the most, and which I will certainly fix, are the cockpit, tailpiece, tailplane size and intake shape. The wingtip and tailplane shape issues I will also probably fix as, to my eyes, they are distinctive Hawker shapes which Academy have got very wrong.

I hope that's of interest. If anyone has any other issues then post them here for discussion - maybe this thread can become a 'one stop shop' for fixing the Academy/Italeri Hunter!

Cheers,

Mark

Edited December 22, 2011 by StephenMG

 

Note, if you did get the new T7 conversion, and use it on the Airfix, then the leftover parts would tart up the Academy kit quite neatly if you have one stashed ;) 

 

HTH

T

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22 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

John! :worthy: How's it going?

If only I had the Airfix hunter kit, I'd use it as a guide to fix all the other issues aft the front end in the Academy kits as well, i.e., those nice arrow-like shaped tip ends of the elevators and tail, the lenght of the bullet in the tail and the correct placement of the elevators with regard to the tail. The F.6 exhaust is all wrong on the Academy kits. Also, the way the whole wing angles down when viewed from either the front or rear.

 

Awesome, thanks! I've been intending to build a Chilean T.72 for which I still haven't found the required decals.

Cheers my mate!

 

Unc2

I will have a look to see how the Airfix/Heritage kits match up - but too many other things going on at the moment!

 

John

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21 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

The heritage set is OOP, and their quality could be variable,  and so it makes sense for an AM producer to go back to the drawing board.

I suspect that the Heritage set could be made to fit 'with some modelling skill'  

 

the biggest issue would be if the fuselage diameter and cross section was grossly different,  and some calipers and a contour comb should help determine how out or not the Academy vs Airfix are.

 

Regarding the Academy kit, I'm going to quote the best list of flaws I know of, note that @StephenMG  own chunks of a Hunter and did the plans in the SAM Datafile

The short, unless you are not bothered, or have plenty of time but not much cash, and Academy kits stashed, get the Airfix.

 the Airfix kit is basically accurate, the Academy kit is riddled with errors.(see below)

 

 

 

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234909441-italeri-academy-hunter/

 

Note, if you did get the new T7 conversion, and use it on the Airfix, then the leftover parts would tart up the Academy kit quite neatly if you have one stashed ;) 

 

HTH

T

Thanks Troy - as helpful as ever. Just to satisfy my curiosity I want to compare the Heritage conversion with the Airfix kit. If it does not work I guess that you can still use the T8M nosecone with Ali's forthcoming conversion!

 

John

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I was informed by the ex-owner of Heritage kits the last time I spoke to him that he sold most of his molds and tools to another manufacturer of aftermarket kits and that the new owner would be upgrading them as and when he gets the time.  The owner of some of the Heritage tooling now is Ali and Heritage told me the Hunter conversion was one of the tools he sold him and judging by the photos he has displayed of his up and coming 2 seat Hunter conversion all the parts are the same as I have the same kit. 

 

I believe Ali  is making(or made) a new canopy for the conversion and I would imagine he is tweaking the fuselage to fit the Airfix Hunter and of course he is also adding new decals to the kit

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Let's not forget that Airfix also got the aileron and elevator tips wrong, aswel as a very poor nosewheel and undersized wing pylons.

A much better basis than the academy kit but worthy of note for correction.

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1 hour ago, 71chally said:

Let's not forget that Airfix also got the aileron and elevator tips wrong, aswel as a very poor nosewheel and undersized wing pylons.

A much better basis than the academy kit but worthy of note for correction.

I am in full agreement with you.  As for the poor nosewheel and undersized pylons...……...Ali is one jump ahead of you as he has already done those...………...check his site:-

 

https://aerocraftmodels.bigcartel.com/category/1-48th

 

Whether he takes notes of the conversations on this forum we will soon find out by what he chooses and adds to the conversions.  You keep adding these little extras and the conversion will work out more expensive than the kit, the Heritage kit when it was out, wasn't exactly cheap., but fingers crossed

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On 8/24/2019 at 9:58 PM, Uncle Uncool said:

I've been intending to build a Chilean T.72 for which I still haven't found the required decals.

The upcoming Xtradecals 1/48th scale Hunter F.4 sheet includes markings for FACh J 735.  The markings have now been revised and will include correct low viz insignia with correct proportions and codes (in pale grey) as used in 1994-95 period. With a minor work you will be now able to convert the codes from 735 to 736 and use them to make one of the last two seaters serving in the FACh.  :)

 

Edited by Diego

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On 8/25/2019 at 7:43 PM, rayprit said:

I was informed by the ex-owner of Heritage kits the last time I spoke to him that he sold most of his molds and tools to another manufacturer of aftermarket kits and that the new owner would be upgrading them as and when he gets the time.  The owner of some of the Heritage tooling now is Ali and Heritage told me the Hunter conversion was one of the tools he sold him and judging by the photos he has displayed of his up and coming 2 seat Hunter conversion all the parts are the same as I have the same kit. 

 

I believe Ali  is making(or made) a new canopy for the conversion and I would imagine he is tweaking the fuselage to fit the Airfix Hunter and of course he is also adding new decals to the kit

Thanks for this - I had not appreciated that the Heritage hunter kit tooling may have moved to Ali. I still need to look at the conversion and the Airfix kit to judge whether they are compatible  or nearly compatible. If not I could always use the T8M nosecone on Ali's conversion!

 

John

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20 hours ago, 71chally said:

Let's not forget that Airfix also got the aileron and elevator tips wrong, aswel as a very poor nosewheel and undersized wing pylons.

A much better basis than the academy kit but worthy of note for correction.

Yes Chally - you are right. I pointed out the wingtips error to Airfix when they showed to Hunter at 2018 SMW. The rep on the stand was totally disinterested. Admittedly it is only a few swipes with a sanding stick but the point is it should not happen. And none of the reviews that I have seen have noted this either. I wonder if the error will be reiterated on the forthcoming F4.

 

 

John

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9 hours ago, Diego said:

The upcoming Xtradecals 1/48th scale Hunter F.4 sheet includes markings for FACh J 735.  The markings have now been revised and will include correct low viz insignia with correct proportions and codes (in pale grey) as used in 1994-95 period. With a minor work you will be now able to convert the codes from 735 to 736 and use them to make one of the last two seaters serving in the FACh.  :)

 

Thanks Diego - I stick to RAF/FAA models, but I am sure that Unc will be interested in your comments.

 

John

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On 8/26/2019 at 3:57 PM, jaw said:

but I am sure that Unc will be interested in your comments.

Woo-hoo...!!! :yahoo:

Yeh, me is, John! Will buy no less than five sheets myself.

Yeh, me will.

Cheers,

 

Unc2

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Probably old news, but I only just got the Airfix Hunter, and have begun to compare it with the Academy.  Airfix includes both the "F.6 style" and the parabrake butts.  The break with the core fuselage is different (Airfix starts farther forward) and the bit of fillet under the fin is shaped differently, but it seems that it would be possible to adapt the "leftover" Airfix tailcone to an Academy fuselage.

 

I do have a feeling that I'll be wanting a two-seater conversion somewhere along the way...

 

Love to Astrid,

bob

Edited by gingerbob

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I seem to recall reading somewhere, regarding the Heritage conv Vs. the Aeroclub one. The latter is a better bet apparently due to the choice of point for the fuselage point. Perhaps somebody else could confirm this.

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