Jump to content

Another Hellcat question: Gloss Sea Blue - which serial nos?


Tony Whittingham

Recommended Posts

Hello Hellcat experts,

I’m looking at the Hellcat detachment of 1844 NAS on HMS Formidable, specifically Bill Atkinson’s Hellcat. The photo I have is of his wingman’s aircraft, which appears to be GSB,

with 5P? Greyed out. Atkinson’s Hellcat was JX772. Would this Hellcat have been finished in GSB at the factory?

 

regards,

TW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Certainly not an expert, but I think just the first few F6F-5's left the factory with rear quarter windows and the tri-scheme colors- the remainder were overall glosssy sea blue without the small windows behind the canopy. I'm sure one of our resident authorities will be along to confirm or correct; have no idea which FAA Hellcat Mk II serials that would be, though. 

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
added text
Link to comment
Share on other sites

GSB and rather "dog eared" according to 5th NFW Diary written by the detachment to Formidable.

 

The detachment provided four Night Fighters and two PR Hellcats.  The captain of Formidable had then struck down to the hanger as soon as they landed because they were scruffy compared to his new shiny Corsairs.  Also in the diary it says that the Hellcats were regular Hellcats and only two of the four pilots had night carrier landing experience.  The PR Hellcats had their guns removed and were polished over the first couple of days on board to get more speed out of them.

 

This is my interpretation of Lt WHI Atkinson's Hellcat JX772 based on the thread posted above..

 

48558993297_bdf375b4c6.jpg

 

One day I'll get around to rebuilding it.  2.04.45 Mitsubishi A6M “Zero” Destroyed. Kawasaki Ki61 “Tony” Probably Destroyed, E. coast Formosa.  Grumman Hellcat II JW779/W199 (note:- 1839 NAS aircraft)

 

 

One day I'll rebuild if but before that I need to identify the side number of the aircraft Atkinson flew 02.04.45

2.04.45 Mitsubishi A6M “Zero” Destroyed. Kawasaki Ki61 “Tony” Probably Destroyed, E. coast Formosa.  Grumman Hellcat II JW779/W199 (note:- 1839 NAS aircraft)

 

 

Good luck with your build

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Certainly not an expert, but I think all but the first few F6F-5's left the factory with rear quarter windows and the tri-scheme colors- the remainder were overall glosssy sea blue without the small windows behind the canopy. I'm sure one of our resident authorities will be along to confirm or correct; have no idea which FAA Hellcat Mk II serials that would be, though. 

Mike

You might want edit that first sentence Mike, don’t you mean ‘only the first few...’ instead of ‘all but the first few...’ 😏

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did a little bit of work a while back to try and establish where the changeover from Temperate Sea Scheme (TSS) to Sea Blue Gloss (SBG) took place.  You would be surprised at the number of photos in which I was unable or unwilling to be dogmatic as to which scheme was worn.  I'm away from my references (principally Geoff Thomas' Eyes For The Phoenix (EFTP) and the Osprey RN Aces (RNA)) so currently unable to look at the evidence with fresh eyes but from the limited evidence amassed by the time I got distracted by something else, it seemed to me that JX758 was definitely in TSS (RNA p.76) and JX841 was definitely in SBG (EFTP p.213).  Confusingly JX878 seemed to be in TSS (EFTP p.236).  JX772, the aircraft of interest to you falls in the zone of uncertainty between JX758 and JX841: I have no reason to argue against its being in SBG.

 

By the way, given the turnover of aircraft in the British Pacific Fleet and working conditions in BPF hangars, I would expect incidences of aircraft being repainted from TSS to SBG to be vanishingly small.  The FAA started using aircraft in SBG because that's the way the factory was finishing them and the British authorities had agreed to accept them in that scheme.

 

The issue of the rear windows behind the cockpit is unrelated.  Here difficulties arise because so many photos show the cockpit hood slid back over the relevant area but I reckon JW723 definitely had them (The British Pacific And East Indies Fleets, p.67) and JX690 definitely did not (Squadrons of the FAA, 1st ed, p.388).  So the windows disappeared before SBG came onto the scene.

Edited by Seahawk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the switch to GSB occurred in the JX serial range. Given that JX841 was GSB, and JX878 was in TSS, it suggests that there was some overlap on the production line, with the switch mid-way through the JX serial range with -5 Hellcat JV, JW and some JX serials in TSS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

You might want edit that first sentence Mike, don’t you mean ‘only the first few...’ instead of ‘all but the first few...’ 😏

Done! Thanks for catching my mistake! 👍

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

You write JW799/W199.  This gives you the tail code W for the carrier and the side number 199 for the aircraft.

Sorry my clumsy notation as I copied it from some working notes I have written where I use 99 as a numeric I don't know.

 

JW799 had the tail code W and the side number was 1?? but what was the ?? The aircraft was an 1839 NAS aircraft according to Sturtivant.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a bit of an outline of Hellcat distribution/destination  here (if it can be confirmed) about 3/4 down the web page:

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2019/06/29/hellcats-in-the-royal-navy/

 

- first batch and second batches of 188 F6F-5 Hellcat Mark IIs started to be delivered to the Royal Navy from May 1944, primarily to 1840 squadron

- many Hellcats were being shipped to overseas FAA squadrons directly from Norfolk, Virginia, USA to HMS Thane 14 August 1944 and on to RNARY Wingfield, thence to 804 squadron in September 1944

 

- subsequent batch of 295 Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat Mk F.II was also shipped directly to RNARY Wingfield (eg JX670 to JX720) in HMS Ranee in September 1944,  and on to RNARY Coimbatore

 

- final 293 Hellcat II to be delivered to the Fleet Air Arm arrived between January and May 1945, the very last aircraft, KE265 being delivered on 11 May 1945

 

 

regards,

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

Can't find it at the moment but there was a film taken on board HMS Formidable of operations in the Pacific.  In the background you see a partial view of JX772.  When I find it I'll post it..

Possibly the same clip but on Part III of the DVD "The British Pacific and East Indies Fleets" there is at 2:28:46 a 14 second clip of Hellcats taking off from Formidable.  One is definitely 122/X and another is very tentatively 123/X.  Can't make out any serials though.  Both in SBG but 122 has a TSS cowling ring.  3-digit codes on undercarriage doors in a rounded style.  Stencil markings very apparent.  Both carrying drop-tanks.

 

I think there is a photo in "Alarm Starboard" by a chap who was FDO of Formidable at the time of a Hellcat in TSS taking off from Formidable.  Can't recall any other details about it.

Edited by Seahawk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Seahawk said:

Possibly the same clip but on Part III of the DVD "The British Pacific and East Indies Fleets" there is at 2:28:46 a 14 second clip of Hellcats taking off from Formidable.  One is definitely 122/X and another is very tentatively 123/X.  Can't make out any serials though.  Both in SBG but 122 has a TSS cowling ring.  3-digit codes on undercarriage doors in a rounded style.  Stencil markings very apparent.  Both carrying drop-tanks.

 

I think there is a photo in "Alarm Starboard" by a chap who was FDO of Formidable at the time of a Hellcat in TSS taking off from Formidable.  Can't recall any other details about it.

That's the one @Seahawk.  You can see FX772 in the background 119 on the wheel doors FX772 chalked on the prop blade..  I'll take a look and see if I can find it..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...