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Harrier Questions ?


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On 8/17/2019 at 11:56 PM, 71chally said:

It's interesting to note that the very early AV-8As delivered had the same instrument panel and cockpit as the GR.1, they also lacked the dorsal aerial, and had the Mk9 seat fitted.

I seem to remember reading that this was to get deliveries to the USMC as soon as possible.

I'm guessing the 'baseline' in Johns superb manual extracts above refers to the change of cockpit equipment.

 

I'm sure there was a futher change later on (90th production aircraft springs to mind, but I'd need to check that)

 

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I really love this photo, its the 1st time I've ever seen a sidewinder in that Dark grey. Ive seen them in lighter grey's, but this looks to be a match for the RAF Dark sea grey of the camouflage. I now know how i will do my loadout thanks for the photo. 

 

Dennis

 

I think the missile is a blue practice/drill round rather than grey

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13 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I really love this photo, its the 1st time I've ever seen a sidewinder in that Dark grey. Ive seen them in lighter grey's, but this looks to be a match for the RAF Dark sea grey of the camouflage. I now know how i will do my loadout thanks for the photo. 

 

Dennis

The nose of the AIM-9 on the Harrier looks to be blue, which would make it an inert training round.  The AIM-9 training rounds that I saw on our F-4s at RAF Woodbridge in the mid 70s were painted overall blue with maybe white fins.  Then of course there was the one time that a training round fell off one of the aircraft and IIRC punched a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn.

Later,

Dave

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18 hours ago, sloegin57 said:

Port side missile was the same Dennis :-

spacer.png

HTH

 

DR

 

The missiles are not in any  service colour scheme  not being practice rounds  which is a light blue  or DRILL which is Oxford blue, which is  only used by the British.

I suspect these are display rounds used for photos and flight trials by  the manufacturers, and just fitted for the photo sortie.

 The missile also looks to be of the Aim9B/J/N  type which was a USAF missile, the AV8A was initially cleared to carry the AIM9G as listed in a previous post  which was the  model  used by the USN/Marines.

 

Selwyn

 

 

Edited by Selwyn
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5 hours ago, Selwyn said:

The missiles are not in any  service colour scheme  not being practice rounds  which is a light blue  or DRILL which is Oxford blue, which is  only used by the British.

I suspect these are display rounds used for photos and flight trials by  the manufacturers, and just fitted for the photo sortie.

 The missile also looks to be of the Aim9B/J/N  type which was a USAF missile, the AV8A was initially cleared to carry the AIM9G as listed in a previous post  which was the  model  used by the USN/Marines.

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right, i was being sloppy in my terms. USN/MC used B as well, the split occured on the devlopment from the B. But they were long out of service by then.

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An interesting little detail I just noticed on that (2nd) formation shot: each type has the wing insignia at a different angle- the Phantom's isn't even in the same orientation to a wing reference (the other two are parallel to the trailing edge, or so it appears).  I know that this is partly due to swept wings, but still an interesting thing to see.

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OK, now you're just showing off, John! (BTW, is there a light fixture or kitchen appliance at your place that's suitable for the Zuni pod? Just askin'!) 😜

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
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3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

OK, now you're just showing off, John! (BTW, is there a light fixture or kitchen appliance at your place that's suitable for the Zuni pod? Just askin'!) 😜

Mike

I know Mike, I just can't help myself! All the domestic light fittings are safe for now, but if another bath panel turns up we could be plunged into darkness again! 🙂

 

John

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10 hours ago, sammy da fish said:

The amendments are called AL’s in most air pubs such as the vol1 &3. However pwi’s, lei’s, STI’s, Shrims & and of course Mods also.

ex RAF bloke

Those pages are to do with the US AV8A so they are most likely from a US Technical Order (TO) not An Air Publication (AP)

TO's don't have amendments, they have "Changes."

 

Selwyn

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On 8/17/2019 at 5:11 PM, 72modeler said:

Dennis,

 

I think you can get away with using a GR1 kit to do a Marine AV-8A. AV-8A's had a Stencil SII instead of a MB Mk 9 bang seat; there was also a long dorsal antenna, and the cockpit layout was different due to U.S. radio equipment and other items being substituted for the British units. Many Marine Harriers were also upgraded to AV-8C standard with an uprated engine and the deletion of the PFO camera in the nose, and I think also the installation of formation or 'tape' lights. If you can find an Esci or Italeri AV-8A or GR1, they are very nice and have much finer scribing and panel line detail than the new-tool Airfix Harrier.

Mike

 

There's a bit more to the AV-8C: this variant was the result of the experience with the AV-8B prototypes, that had showed how the introduction of vertical surfaces on the lower fuselage helped achieve hgher lift when hovering. As a result a retractable dam behind the nose wheel well and strakes on the gun pods were introduced on the AV-8A fleet and these were redesignated AV-8C. At the same time the camera was removed and the formation light strips added.

 

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Formation strip ights were added before the AV-8C, they were an in-service addition to the AV-8A.

 

av-8a2_08-jpg.98347

 

The other changes on the C were the addition of radar warning receiver bumps on the wingtips and tail boom and a shorter airbrake (Possibly to allow access to the ALE flare/chaff launcher fitted in the old baggage compartment, although some late service GR3s also had the smaller airbrake, allegedly due to ground clearance issues). The shorter airbrake was literally sawn off - one survivor still has saw witness marks!

 

BTW if anyone has decent photos of the flare installation I'd love to see them. 

 

The retractable dam only worked with the gun pods, the alternative strakes actually covered the edges of it so it could be was disabled. There is anecdotal evidence it was removed in service for being more trouble than it was worth

Edited by Dave Fleming
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On 8/29/2019 at 6:52 AM, Jordi said:

 

The same reason the command stan/eval team does.  And the same reason the ORI starts then too :)

Not anymore.  At least in AMC (used to be called MAC before some dumbass decided to change things because he was AF Chief of Staff and could and also because he knew nothing of AF history) they let you know several months in advance when they are going to show up.  Sort of defeats the purpose of being able to show you know how to do your mission on a no notice aw sh*t situation!

Later,

Dave

 

P.S. Yes, I know what the dumbasses name is, I just prefer not to use it because he was such an idiot.

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  • Mike changed the title to Harrier Questions ?
3 minutes ago, Simon said:

Good work Mike. As a fellow hater of unnecessary apostrophe's, much appreciated.

You've got no idea how hard I had to resist the urge to put one in my post too :wicked:

 

BTW - sorry Dennis.  No offence intended, I just can't abide the Grocer's apostrophe (is that the correct term for it?).

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Bit confused here Mike, if you corrected my Title then I'm sure it was needed ? I will be honest my penmanship skills are sad. I can read at a masters degree level, but writing I'm a bit of a sad joke. All of my english teachers in school, and i mean all 12 of them took an attitude of well he'll get it next year. They continually passed me onto the next grade/level without cementing the info into my brain. To this day my writing skills are atrociously bad. I really do try to get my paragraphs, and sentences correct but i do fail from time to time. To this day I still couldn't tell you what the difference was or is between a noun, verb, pronoun, or an adjective. I know the words but my brain doesn't make the connection. 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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19 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Bit confused here Mike, if you corrected my Title then I'm sure it was needed ? I will be honest my penmanship skills are sad. I can read at a masters degree level, but writing I'm a bit of a sad joke. All of my english teachers in school, and i mean all 12 of them took an attitude of well he'll get it next year. They continually passed me onto the next grade/level without cementing the info into my brain. To this day my writing skills are atrociously bad. I really do try to get my paragraphs, and sentences correct but i do fail from time to time. To this day I still couldn't tell you what the difference was or is between a noun, verb, pronoun, or an adjective. I know the words but my brain doesn't make the connection. 

 

Dennis

God help me Dennis  if we start getting pulled up on our spelling and grama, I've had it! It sounds like you may be dyslexic like me, despite the wonders of spell check I still have problems with homophones I know there are three versions of there but I have no idea how to spell the other ones, on is an abbreviation for they are so that's what I write. I'm still trying to find a pen that can spell, I've never had one. 

 

John 

  

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